North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

If you think of a whole-railway cost and imagine running, say, a six coach train with either a steam loco or diesel hauling it, almost all the costs are identical. P/way, C&W, signalling, the basic business costs - everything is the same. Only the traction costs vary, and by definition they are only a small part of the total operating cost.

The evangelists for "diesel is cheaper" tend to focus on the traction costs and ignore the fact that it is the whole railway cost that matters, not just the traction. (Just as in arguments about the rise in coal prices, coal is only a par of the cost of running a steam loco). My hunch is that diesel is cheaper, but it is not as much cheaper as its advocates suggest. There is also a big unknown in that whereas with steam, pretty much any replacement part - even new boilers and cylinders - has been done and can be factored into cost models, I have a suspicion that there are some major tasks in diesel traction that have never been attempted in preservation and it is unknown whether they are even feasible, or if they are, how expensive they will be.

Tom

 

It's a poor comparison. The really big issue with steam is that it is very labour intensive in day-to-day operation (all that shifting ash around ...) That's a big problem if you are paying for your labour, as British Railways was; less of an issue if you aren't.

Tom

 

A diesel loco is definitely cheaper to run whilst it runs. However, when it comes to a major overhaul, that is when the problems will start to arise. Steam loco engineering is basically simple engineering and, as has been shown, nothing that is required is in the 'too hard' category. Diesel locos, though, are living on borrowed time. They are generally kept going because people were wise enough to build up a good stock of spares and, once those spares are used up, that may well be the end. The 04 shunter on the NYMR was sidelined a good while ago with a bent crankshaft. A replacement was unobtainable until a replacement Gardner 8LW was eventually sourced in (I think) Ireland. There are so many parts on a diesel that can't be replicated with basic engineering skills, unlike the steam loco.

 

If you travel to the North York Moors by road from various directions you will see the brown tourist attraction signs. They don’t point the direction to the NYMR, they simply say ‘Steam Railway’. The NYMR must have agreed that wording when they weee put up and I’m fairly certain those in Park Street know what Joe Public is generally looking for. High fire risk may be a hot topic but they can’t tun Tornado and play the fire risk card. Thee are currently any number of locos with no work to do. The Railway needs to give Joe Public what it wants or be truthful in why they can’t do so.

 

I reckon it has lost its way in general, not just in the commercial subset.

Noel

 

Yes.
It's why we need transparency from the NYMR.
There has been so much obfuscation. What are they hiding?
Why did they use columns in Moorsline justifying the appointment of the CEO?
Why don't they publish passenger data? They've never had so much real time data.

After the appalling first AGM of the CEO, it was apparent that a stooge had been put in place.

Last year's AGM simply glossed over the problems.

Until competent people are in charge the railway will suffer.

 

You don't pay for all the drivers, firemen and cleaners and some workshop staff on an HR.

 

In Kent at least if a brown sign says steam railway it has been paid for by the road authority. If it says eg Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway it has been sponsored by that organisation who have paid a not inconsiderable fee especially on motorway or trunk roads. Sometimes they've been able to get the funding for these fees from tourist or regional organisations.

 

Good point. I know, though, that the NYMR has more paid staff than most heritage lines; I don't know in exactly which roles, though (other than marketing ;-). Are many of them in steam-specific slots, ones which wouldn't exist under diesel?

Sure they can; the vast majority of politicians do something like that, and seem to get away with it.

Noel