GWSR General Discussion and Operations

So is Broadway on the exact same site as before or slightly shifted?

 

Very slightly shifted:
- the main building is longer, due to extra toilets
- the footbridge was installed 2ft too long, leading to an incorrect position on P1
- the P2 building is longer by one truss .

The approach road to the horse dock was lost to the house next door prior to the GWSR purchase.

 

The new platforms are in almost exactly the same locations as the old ones, IIRC? I have this vague memory that they are not exactly the same length as the originals, though?

Noel

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.4&lat=52.04323&lon=-1.87230&layers=206&b=ESRIWorld&o=100

National Library of Scotland OS 25" map. You can adjust the transparency slider to compare the map and the present day view.

 

They are longer, iirc 700ft instead of 400ft.
The original platforms served the 'Coffeepot', a rail motor and a trailer.
Our instructions were to build platforms long enough for 10 coaches
And the toilets you'd need with that volume of people...
Currently we are running 7 coaches.

 

Sounds like sensible future proofing, also adding flexibility and safety*

How long are the other station platforms?

*By what I mean by safety is Platform Train Interface issues, as well as giving more room in case of misjudgement and also a bit more speed, we normally have a tight round round where I volunteer and having to approach slowly, some people try and go for doors early which means we have to be extra vigilant

 

Absolutely, there's a good reason the SVR have just extended Kidderminster Town platforms. Sounds very wise to me.

 

According to our appendix, Broadway is 9.75 Mk1s long, Toddington is in the process of going from 6 to 6.25 Mk1s, Winchcombe is 7.5, Gotherington is 2, and Cheltenham is 13 on P1, and 9.5 on P2.

 

So fairly good then and only Winchcombe on a curve(?). A lot better than at the SVR...

 

So, I've been looking at the GWSR Carriage & Wagon Dept. blog, and reading how they've just brought in several more somewhat 'moth-eaten' newly-acquired (by the GWSR) Mark 1 carriages for full restorations, and a question popped into my head: I assume there is some maximum number of such carriages that the GWSR has a use for? My sense is that they must be close to that number now?

So, my question is: what are they going to do when they hit that number? They have a fairly large C+W department, with a great deal of accumulated skill in taking fairly moth-eaten Mark 1 carriages and restoring them to tip-top condition. I can't imagine that they will need the whole crew to simply maintain their existing already-restored Mark 1 carriage fleet. What will they do? (I admit the GWSR may not have considered this question yet; but maybe they have.)

I can imagine a couple of things, such as contract restorations for other lines (not every line seems to have the skills in-house to restore a badly moth-eaten Mark 1 carriages, e.g. replacing badly corroded sections of outer shell), or perhaps they could repair carriages 'on spec' (i.e. restore carriages, with the intention of selling them when they are done, and then repeating the process).

Anyone have any thoughts?

Noel

 

I can! Maybe things will change when we have a carriage shed, but at the moment it feels like we're barely keeping pace with deterioration. Expect to see some carriages get moved on in the medium term as the new acquisitions effectively replace them.

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Has anyone ever made that model work? I think you'd end up buying carriages for a four figure sum, spending a six figure sum to restore them and selling them on for a five figure sum. Not even Milo Minderbinder could get that maths to work.

I also think "repeating the process" is underestimating the variation in repairs required (and therefore cost predictability). There are some generic thing that Mark 1s suffer from (and therefore which you could reasonably predict need attending to - such as corroded end structures, and axle boxes sticking in the bogie horn guides) but beyond that, it is hard to predict fully what needs doing until you start stripping things down.

Pricing for sale would become hard as well: you might buy two seemingly identical carriages, find that under the skin one requires tens of thousands of pounds more work done, but side by side you can't reflect that additional work in the sale price, because the customer is choosing between two identical objects - a restored carriage.

Mark 1s are pretty common, and change hands from time to time - either a distress sale (as in the Llangollen case) or due to changing operational needs of the owner. But I think it would be difficult to make a go of buying on spec in order to sell. The closest I'd say is Cranmore, but they are working on vehicles provided by the host railway and - presumably - on a "cost plus" basis for work carried out out, not speculatively buying carriages to sell.

Tom

 

There's also the volunteer motivation element to think about.

On the one hand, our upholstery team are quite happy doing seats for other railways on a contract basis making some money for the railway.

On the other, I can't say the idea of labouring over the painting and prep and outshopping a freshly painted carriage only to see it zip off to another railway particularly appeals to me.

Obviously different strokes for different folks, it depends what you personally get out of it, but it is another dimension to consider.

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Repairing carriages on a contract basis is expensive. We have spent a six figure sum on 2 MK1’s which were both operating prior to repairs. In both cases we could have done even more work to them.

Many MK1’s are coming to the end of their (substantial) residual lives so there is virtually a demand for repairs but whether resources are available to pay for the said repairs is another matter.

Perhaps there is some scope for contract work on specialist parts eg door locks, vacuum cylinders and upholstery.

If I was the GWSR I’d look seriously to get a carriage shed as it’s great to have the resources to repair the carriages but nothing more de moralising than to see them deteriorate outside in the weather.

 

Yes, I'd heard similar figures on the Bluebell - and as you say, that is just for getting some stuff attended to externally, we still do significant work ourselves once they come back.

Agreed. At the Bluebell we do trimming work as a contract for others as well as our own needs, and have also started doing Buckeye overhauls and maintenance on behalf of another railway. But we have more than enough to do on our own carriages to entertain thoughts of doing entire overhauls on behalf of others!

Indeed.

Tom

 

What's the plans with respect to a carriage shed?

The SVR does so with door locks and I like vacuum cylinders.

 

OK, so clearly my ideas on what to have the C+W people do are non-starters! But is my starting point (that the GWSR must be getting close to its desired Mark 1 fleet size, even allowing for a few extra, as 'hot standbys', not marshalled into operational rakes) accurate?

If this is true, it's going to be an issue across the heritage world, since so many lines depend on Mark 1's. (I'm so much fun at the moment; first pointing out that the NYMR has a very serious problem with fixed costs - and now this.)

I wonder if it is accurate, though; the same thinking ought to apply to engines, but although the heritage world now seems to be doing things on that front that once would have been thought of as impossible (casting new cylinders now seems to be a moderately common thing), I don't recall too many engines being plinthed because 'its residual life has been used up'. ('Sharpthorn' at the Bluebell Railway might be one - although in that case it might be that its limited power makes it unattractive for the comprehensive refurbishment that would be needed.)

Of course, even casting a new cylinder pales, when compared to a 'from scratch' new build, and there have been several of those. But is that the inevitable long-term future of the heritage world - running complete replica fleets, because 'the residual lives of the originals have been used up'? If so, it will certainly be a sizeable financial challenge for the heritage world. :-(

Hmm. Well, maybe it's time for the GWSR to start thinking about that, now that the trackbed seems to have - if temporarily, at least - stopped disintegrating. (I hope!)

Noel