North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

A couple of pages back now I did a simple calculation based on 300,000 visitors/year and turnover of £10m. The figures were deliberately chosen; the former because I understand it has been achieved in the past on more than one occasion, although like many NYMR statistics, relatively difficult to establish but certainly mentioned in annual reports. The second one was to provide an income that should be sufficient to allow a significant amount of money to be spent on the maintenance backlog. Based on those two figures we get a spend of about £33.33/head, which includes all sources from train operations. Now I think that is achievable. I hear the arguments that we live in a different world from fifteen years ago but, at the moment, I don't think that is true. Joe Public still wants their days out and their annual holidays, just as they always have done. The one thing that may have changed is the availability of money which makes it more important to give perceived value for money. If they think that they are getting value for money, they will spend; if they think that they are paying over the odds or, even worse, being ripped off, they will not. Last month, I had a few days in Wales which included a day on the Welsh Highland. My wife & I opted for a full length journey over the line and I bought the tickets. When she heard the price I had paid I was told that she wouldn't have bought the tickets at that price. The irony is I had actually got them at half price - £72 instead of £144 for the two. On the train, it was very noticeable that it was less than half full, probably about a third full and I'm guessing that most had paid the full fare. In contrast, the trains that we past and saw during our visit seemed well loaded, the fundamental difference being that these were all short journeys at a much cheaper rate. I stronly believe that, if you get the price right, you will get the visitor numbers that are currently lacking. Not only that, if the secondary spend is reasonably priced, Joe Public will spend on that. It shouldn't be an impossible dream to get to that £33.33/head average that I used. Arriving at that £10m was also purely from visitor spend. I have not included any other income, such as from donations, legacies, grants, etc which would all add to a botttom line which could be used for capital works.
You may gather from all that, that I think that one of the NYMR's biggest mistakes has been to price itself out of its core market, which is the Yorkshire family having a day out. 'Ow much! Aldi, Lidl and Wetherspoons can't all be wrong. Neither is the Crooked Billet at Saxton where we can enjoy a drink and a good two course meal for two for about £60 (and the vegetables are included). Always busy.
https://crooked-billet.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/Crooked-Billet-New-Menu-Feb-26-1.pdf

 

Absolutely and I believe an HST set has been suggested previously. Others more knowledgeable may know but I believe diesel engines designed for high speed running may struggle when limited to 25MPH. Another factor is the need for suitable servicing facilities. It would however play very well to the opportunity presented by what has been called cool culture. A recent presentation by a well respected marketing authority highlighted that in hot weather that is becoming common for people to stay at home unless their intended venue is air conditioned. An HST set might offer that relief.

 

The YDR certainly seem to be making money with what they are doing, catering for coach tours and food. However, I hear that they are hemorrhaging volunteers and most train operations are being covered by paid staff. It's also possible to turn up and find the train full of these parties so you can't have a ride.

 

I wasn’t aware of the volunteer issues, but the rest is absolutely what I had in mind.

 

Steve, what evidence do you have to back your assertion that the Yorkshire family is the NYMR’s core market? I suggest that’s almost certainly not the case today even if it may once have been. There’s ample data to suggest that spending power in that segment is under serious pressure while at the upper end of the age range discretionary spending is much less constrained. Of course there are many retirees who are struggling financially but the data suggests that around 20% of the higher age group enjoy substantial discretionary spending power. For evidence just look at the cruise market. That’s the demographic with the greatest financial potential which I suspect is what the Ffestiniog/Welsh Highland have appreciated.
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Putting aside holidays, most people don't travel more than 60 miles for their jolly day out so that puts the starting points firmly in Yorkshire. Holidaymakers and coach tours will undoubtedly come from further afield.
I agree with what you ar saying about the higher age groups and their likely greater discretionary spending power but that doesn't mean to say that they will be les cautious with their money. I certainly am and don't consider myself to be unique in this respect.

 

I’m conscious that no one answered your question about Mission Impossible income. It should be remembered that at the time the railway couldn’t run normal services because of Covid restrictions. So the hire of the railway for filming was not additional income but vitally needed alternative income. The credit for that initiative should go to the much derided management team.

 

Agreed but the evidence is that


Agreed but the evidence for that demographic is that the quality of the experience is more important than its cost…….even in Yorkshire!

 

I recently travelled by public transport to Embsay, with the intention of catching a train to Bolton Abbey in time for the LNERCA members train, only to find they had no spare seats. Fortunately Steve Middleton invited me to travel as his guest.
I even made a friend.

Sawdust.

 

I hope she was amused.

 

There's a GWR 5 car and a 9 car set stored at Ely.

They were giving away 143/144 a few years ago. Mend the roof and job's a good un.

 

She doesn’t look it.

 

I let her read this thread.

Sawdust.