West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Agreed, I suspect the change in models and perceived price increase is quite damaging.

 

I'm not saying I think it will be changed, I'm just suggesting it is a Government scheme/policy. As we've learned over time no matter what the politicians might say, what they do can be completely different. I just wouldn't want to be reliant on anything coming from them. If you can get it then great, but it should extra rather than required.

 

That is one of the issues around the way Gift Aid has to work. I guess I am in your camp Steve in that a 10% voucher (in the NYMR instance) would be of no interest, so it just causes a price increase, where of course I would be happy to gift aid all the lower price and no voucher if the rules allowed.

 

I suggest

1. Its always worth keeping an eye on structure and the WSR's dates back to its formation AND
2. Its out of line with most other heritage railways, and
3. It has the potential too increase revenue

So what is there not to like?

 

Here you go, Noel - from the CH website:



So actually, 42...

 

Not all of them were active.

Given time, I do wonder if war will break out again at the WSR. I hope not, but from what I have read since he took over, there have been those who have got on with him and those who don't.

I never knew the guy, but I hope some cool heads will prevail at this moment in time

 

I was referring to his age (I'd said 43), not the number of appointments he held.

 

Gift Aid per se is a bargain for the taxpayer. Removing it would bankrupt organisations like National Trust, RNLI, Air ambulances and many others imagine the cost of providing those services as Government Agencies. Most politicians aren't that stupid.

 

Only if you ever bother to keep track of what you have gift aided and tell the tax man. I never could be bothered with all that.

 

Two separate issues. One is the personal tax position, where I see what you're saying. The other is that this is £1.88bn that government passes on in a range of ways without ever having to manage the complexities of grant applications, political priorities, or all the other stuff - it just follows what we each donate. It's virtually self-administering for the government, and barely a drop in the ocean of overall expenditure while giving voters outcomes they want.

 

I'm sorry but I think that you have not grasped the Gift Aid situation and requirements. At Bovington, you purchase a ticket that gives you a 12 month pass. That is not a problem and the whole lot is eligible for Gift Aid and is what the NYMR did for the first couple of years. The alternative (not done at Bovington from looking at their website) is to offer two prices. The lower one is a simple admission fee. The alternative is a more expensive admission price but that is eligible for Gift Aid. In return the organisation can offer a voucher not exceeding 15% that can be spent in shops/buffets as an incentive However, when you buy your tickets, you must be told about the two alternative prices and given the option. There must also be clearly displayed signs giving the alternative prices so certainly not in an unobtrusive position. In qualifyin g for Gift Aid, you must opt for one systyem or the other; you cannot mix and match.

 

Apologies, I read it as something to do with the number of companies he was involved with, but even then that would be too many to deal with unless they are some sort of shell company and only require a signature now and then.

 

That doesn't alter the truth (itself potentially problematic) of what @Snifter writes about how the price could potentially be set. As ever with pricing, understanding the trade off between price and volume as a way of maximising income is an art - and a real challenge in this sector

 

This is something that has exercised us considerably in recent times.
How does this paying extra to gift aid work? We thought it was illegal. Why can’t they just claim gift aid on the standard fee? It feels like double dipping.

 

"to qualify for gift aid, a gift of at least 10% of the value of the ticket must be paid" (Money Saving Expert forum quote, but it's noted in lots of places)

And then the gift aid can be applied to 100% of the price

 

It's specifically the polciy applied by HMRC - to stop just claiming GA on everything regardless.

 

You don't have to understand the logic, you just have to understand the rules

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...a-right-of-free-admission-to-charity-property, section 3.39:

3.39.2 Donations to charity may qualify for Gift Aid, providing the donor receives no more than minimal benefits in consequence of a donation. However, from 6 April 2006 a relaxation to the benefit rules applies for charities which allow visitors access to view charity property.

3.39.3 If, in consequence of a donation, a charity allows a donor the benefit of a right of admission to view charity property then, providing certain conditions are met, the value of that benefit may be disregarded and the donation may qualify for Gift Aid.

3.39.4 For the benefit of any right of admission received in consequence of a donation to be disregarded (so that the donation can be considered for Gift Aid), either of the following conditions must be satisfied:

• a donation is made and in return the charity grants a right of admission to the donor, or the donor and their family, for a period of at least a year, at the same times at which the general public can obtain admission
• a donation is made of at least 10% more than the cost of admission to the general public and in return the charity grants an equivalent right of admission to the donor, or the donor and their family

All the other conditions of the Gift Aid Scheme must be met, including the Gift Aid benefit rules.
​

In effect, you are making a donation in exchange for being allowed access to to view the charity's property (which may then, in our sector's circumstance, require being transported by train to be able to view the whole property ...)

Broadly, there are two options - you make a donation, in exchange for which the donor gets a right of admission for at least twelve months at times the property is otherwise open to the public; or else you make a donation of a least 10% more than the general admission price.

As @Steve says, you have to choose one or the other, you can't mix and match.

For the "free re-admission for a year" model, the charity can nominate up to, but no more than, five days in the year when that doesn't apply. (Section 3.39.6) For a railway that puts some big restrictions around special events. If your typical business model relies on several large galas per year charged at a premium price over the normal fare, then you effectively have to choose a maximum of 5 days in the year in which you can do that. That starts getting restricting if you run, for example, a three day spring, autumn and diesel gala each year (9 days total), which would be far from unusual on a heritage railway. There's also a nuance around how you run part-line special events like Santa and Steam Lights in the model, where you don't want to allow those with a right to free admission in; my hunch is you can get away with it by making it a ticketed, limited capacity event, but only if it is deemed non-charitable (and therefore not subject to being able to reclaim Gift Aid).

Tom

 

@Jamessquared is right, as usual. The railway doesn't have any choice in how it applies You can get away with Santas and Diners because they are special trains providing more than a train ride. One thing not mentionedby Tom or me is that, with the 12 month membership version of gift aid you have to offer the same benefits ( minimum 12 months admission) to all and sundry and not just those gift aiding their money.

 

Thanks all. It makes perfect sense now you’ve explained it. Might have helped if the organisations concerned had taken 30 secs to have explained that to us at the desk.