The Gwili Railway thread

Good answer Matt

 

Thank you, glad it's been thought through and isn't just a "we want to go further" project

 

I know the income from Coach parties is a welcome one, but please can I urge you not to fall into the trap of another railway I'm aware of who appear to have largely sold their soul to Coach parties at the expense of walk-up and enthusiast customers?

At this particular railway, there are multiple stories from the past year of people turning up ad-hoc (they were in the area or passing and thought they'd stop for a ride) only to be told there were no walk-up tickets available because the whole set (4 carriages in this case I think) was booked out to a mix of dining customers and coach parties. They appear to be deeply wedded to pre-booked fares only (even if on the day).

Furthermore, on the Saturday of an enthusiast-focussed gala where they were running two sets of carriages, they booked out half the carriages on one of the sets to a coach party, meaning all the punters who were there for the actual gala were squeezed into the other two carriages.

You clearly cannot sustain a railway on Enthusiast income - that's impossible! But please don't be tempted to sell out to coach parties at the expense of everyone else

That said - I wish you all the best with your extension!

 

Problem is, coach party income isn't just welcome, it's guaranteed. Show me a railway at the minute that can afford to turn down guaranteed money just in case someone might decide to turn up for a ride. For many, finances are on a knife-edge right now. If someone offers to fill four mk1's for me, for one trip or the whole day, I'm taking it (not least because if I don't, another line will.)

 

Short term, I get it. Longer term, I think it's a dangerous strategy that puts all the eggs in one basket, and risks a very large gap if the demand slows. Having visited the railway referred to by @alexl102, my reaction was that I didn't feel especially welcome as an "ordinary" visitor, and that this discouraged me from repeating the experience.

 

I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it again here; coach parties are not a panacea, but they are a welcome bonus. They need to bc welcomed as part of a programme that is balanced around the various potential types of visitors. They can provide a good steady inco0me right up to the moment when they don't for whatever reason, and lines that aim to rely too heavily on them may come unstuck in a big way.

 

Had a similar experience, but there was almost room.for all the ordinary passengers, and there were quite few. But boarding left a bit to be desired, the station staff were overwhelmed rather. My wife was rather put off going again but as it was one of my favourites we did go again and fortunately the experience that time was better. But there were a lot of unhappy punters, I know because the comments being made, who may have been put off visiting again


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I think you have to consider where the Gwili is. It is out on a limb in west wales and there are not a huge amount of enthusiasts queuing up to ride. From an enthusiasts perspective the railway is in a much better place now. They have a prairie, run steam almost exclusively and have lots of wonderful exhibits. The reality is though although decent figures for galas they have never been money spinners for the railway I believe. I actually think coach parties have been a fantastic success story for the railway!

 

Sadly I have to agree - I was an almost daily volunteer between 1987 and 2002 (when I had to stop volunteering due to family medical problems) and I'd estimate that the enthusiasts were, at best, about 5% of the total passengers. And I doubt that it has changed much since then. The Gwili's clientele were people who want a great morning/afternoon out. I CERTAINLY agree that there MUST be room plus a GREAT welcome for any enthusiasts who are kind enough to turn up. As a GWILI enthusiast and someone interested in railway history I'd MUCH prefer that all the passengers who come are interested in a genuine "historical" trip (Indeed I probably wouldn't now join the Gwili with all the additional extra offerings because it's not what would interest ME) but I DO accept that heritage railways need to adapt or die!!! If that's what the Gwili needs to do to survive then I have to accept it and I certainly continue to support it..

 

It had been noticeable that since we started operating more GWR engines a few years ago there has been an upturn in “enthusiast” type visitors be they volunteers on other railways or more generally. However this still accounts for only a small percentage of visitors to the railway.

coach parties are a good line of business but the fact that we also have around 80% of general visitors pre booking means that we haven’t had a situation where we have turned people away because of the coach party etc.

Matt

 

Thank you for sharing - it's always interesting to understand how the necessary balances are struck

 

Unfortunately, the Gwili's location make it quite unattractive for a day visit as there is very little else to do around the line and the railway itself isn't enough of an attraction to spend a day at. From my house, the Gwili, Blaenavon, Dean Forest and Brecon Mountain railways are all about an hours drive away and of those, the Gwili is the least visited. The DFR has Parkend with pubs, walks etc, Blaenavon has Big Pit and the Brecon Mountain has the Brecon Beacons, all places you can easily spend much of the day visiting. Even if the Gwili does extend to Conwil, it still won't add much to it's attractiveness as it will just go to a station right next to the main road but not near anything else, albeit 0.75 miles further than it goes now. I'd much rather see resources spent in tidying up LLwyfan Cerrig and making Abergwili jct more of a destination. Nice cafe, exhibits in the shed, outdoor seating area etc. At the moment, the extension seems an unnecessary distraction.

 

Wow, I am going to have to post a bit of a defence of the area here... Having holdayed quite a bit in West Wales and Pembrokeshire there is certainly a huge amount to do around Carmarthen, not least the jaw dropping beauty of the national park itself. Suggest you book yourself a long weekend there and explore!
As far as the extension and facilties are concerned, I get the idea this all forms part of a master plan that will address the issues you raise. Certainly the railway has come on leaps & bounds since I visited for the first time only a few years ago.
The shed for me is great money spent as the rolling stock was a weak point when I first visited. Good stock, facilities and reliable steam are the foundations of a good heritage railway, but extensions provide motivation, enthusiasm and sometimes the room to provide the foundations. I look forward to riding it and discovering the railway's next chapter.

 

All I can say to this is if you have a look back on this thread it does chart the progress on the carriage shed, which is not yet open to the public but will be by Easter. We have several vintage carriages such as Barry 163, GWR 216 and Taff 220 all under repair and will form part of the display in the shed with Taff 28 and Taff coach 51 and some other exhibits.

the Cafe at Abergwili has been developed (also made out of Taff Vale coaches) and this year we added a canopy cover and more picnic tables.

at Llwyfan Cerrig we have another museum with a lot of smaller exhibits; this year the Aberaeron signal box was opened and the Travelling Post Office and Miniature railway are always popular

in terms of wider attractions, for the walkers the Towy Valley Cycle path is now open. Based on the old Carmarthen to Llandeilo line, this runs though the Towy Valley for 11 miles. There is also the National Botanical Gardens within easy reach or Carmarthen town itself.

you don’t have to take my word for it, a look on TripAdvisor will show over 150 reviews of the railway this year.

Matt

 

Also Carmarthen is a destination in itself, some great restaurants!

I think it is unfair to call the extension a distraction. It will improve the enthusiast offering as Dan Y coed has always been a bit of a bottle neck for long trains etc. If the railway upgraded the loop in Bronwydd it would allow some great galas. Like with all things I guess it really depends on the demand. The railway isn’t far off being able to put out its own prairie with a few 4 wheelers along 5 miles of very picturesque railway. What’s not to like about that? I remember people saying extending to Carmarthen wouldn’t work as it would require more maintenance, there was no prospect of being able to afford a connection to the main road, the railway only had one working diesel and one steam engine at the time and it was recognised it probably needed two of each. Fast forward 10 years all of that has been achieved and the extension to Carmarthen has SIGNIFICANTLY improved the fortunes of the railway!

 

Pardon my curiosity, but if you "probably wouldn't now join the Gwili", what form is your "certainly continue to support it" going to take?

PS. Sorry to pick on your post, but we do see quite a few people on NP who make similar statements and I have always thought joining or visiting were the most obvious ways to support a railway.