Number 10 says......

.....

 

Go figure...

 

The problem surely is that railway stations are public places that are privately owned. We are all used to the railways being publicly owned, but now the rules have changed.

No government is going to mess around with private property or with the right of the owners of a property to decide whether photos or video can be taken on their premises or that any other behaviour is acceptable or not.

I'm afraid that railway enthusiasts are just going to have to get used to the current regime. It isn't going to change, no matter who is Prime Minister or which party is in power.

As for the the idea that railway enthusiasts somehow improve security at a railway station; I'm sorry but I think that's rubbish. Most enthusiasts are far to interested in their current passion to take any notice of anybody who's behaving oddly, in fact it is usually the railway enthusiast who is the oddest member of the public at railway stations!

Sorry if this offends.

Regards

 

So enthusiasts are bound by the same rules as anyone else. Fine so far but why does an enthusiast have to make him/herself known to staff but passengers don't? A bit odd that. What if the enthusiast is a passenger?

 

You're reply deeply worries me. You seem to think that the response to these increasing restrictions is simply to "get used to it." Well any future police state will have nothing to worry about with the likes of you around. Ever considered a job in the Stasi?
As for poopooing the "increased security" angle, for both NR and BTP to publicly recognise enthusiasts as valuable eyes and ears they must have had some experience on which to base their comment.
I for one will not easily give up the freedoms we have and to a large extend still enjoy and I hope there are many, many more out there of a like mind.

 

I have got used to the current regime. In order to avoid arguments with station staff about whether or not I can take pictures I just avoid railway stations. It's dead easy, just avoid them. There is no way, not the slightest chance, that you can win the argument as to whether or not you can take pictures, still or moving, on private property. If the owner or an owner's appointed representative says you can't, then you can't. You just can't win; game set and match to the property owner.

If you argue then they might call the police and accuse you of anything they want to. They have witnesses, you don't. There are a good many thoroughly unpleasant people out there, many of whom are in the security business, indeed the security business seems to attract such obnoxious individuals. Do I want to meet them? No, most definitely not, so I stay away from railway stations

As to the security angle, the BTP have a webpage where it lays out the dos and don'ts and they seem to me to be perfectly reasonable dos and don'ts. The problem is that the BTP and the Metropolitan Police ignore these dos and don'ts, they don't want to be reasonable, they just want to exercise power; they want to abuse the power that they have been lawfully given. I have friends and acquaintences who have been abused by these yobs in blue; it hasn't happened personally to me, but I have had engine drivers waving fists and blaring their horns.

The solution? Find something else to do. This is a battle that can't be won. The conjunction of the rights of property owners and the 'Prevention Of Terrorism Act' is simply to powerful to fight.

The effect of this, for me, is that I don't use public transport much and I never carry a camera around in public. I used to cycle and use the railway to get around. Not now. Post Hatfield, I drive; I took a driving test, passing first time and I drive everywhere or walk for local journeys up to say two miles. I occasionally use the Metropolitan Line but as I don't often need to go into London I don't use it often. Another effect is that I have lost my interest in the current railway scene. My interest now is restricted to preserved steam railways.

My passion for aeronautics is also current but you have to be so careful at airports. Of all the airports in the UK only Ringway has an area set aside for the enthusiast and the casual observer. Even that has a constant police presence. So it's air shows and fly-ins.

The lesson is that cameras, if used in places where cameras are not expected or desired, will get you into trouble. Cameras are expected on the preserved lines; no problem there. Cameras are expected at air shows and light aircraft fly-ins and at Ringway. No problem there either. But go to a private airfield and the owner might just go nuts as has the owner of Spanhoe airfield in Northants just recently.

Regards, but beware too!

 

The problem surely is that railway stations are public places that are privately owned. We are all used to the railways being publicly owned, but now the rules have changed.

In reality they havent changed, we still pay to support the railways through the pulic purse and its still tghe nations public transport system however they try to disguise it, its still state owned. Its perfectly legal to take photographs on railway stations, the only think that has changed is paronoia

 

Rant

Not so! Challenge idiocy at every opportunity to the limit you feel able to manage. Earlier generations died for the rights we once had in this country. If we let this trend continue, we will end up living in a fascist dictatorship. We are not far away from that now.

Cheers
Alan

"To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be governed is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonoured. That is government; that is it's justice; that is it's morality."

 

Your post really does make depressing reading. To simply acquiesce these petty restrictions is to open the door to yet more and more restrictions on our freedom. In the greater scheme of things photographing at stations my seem small fry but it is just these small things we should defend with vigour. Simply walking away from the problem when you have right on your side is not an option.

 

Fed up with being harrased all and every day. Then try R.A.F. Coningsby.

This top security airfield which is home to our latest and top secret Eurofighters is so photographer unfriendly that they have built stone mounds so that you can focus down the runway without the fence in the viewfinder. The crews of the aircraft put their hands up and wave them about so you can't see their faces as they taxi past over 15 feet away from you. As for the heavily armed guards patrolling the perimeter, if you are unlucky enough to be confronted by one they will tell you that unless you leave the site within the the next couple of hours you will have to just put up with the noise and sight of 'xxxxxx' (whatever is due) as it lines up and takes off over your head. In between times you will have to make do with tea and a bun from the daily 'char' wagon on site.

Much the same at Waddo.

Railway security. Don't make me laugh.

 

Haven't been to Coningsby in ages. Seems my step ladders will be redundant now. Lakenheath and Mildenhall are much the same too.
Never had this bother when the IRA campaign was on. About the only inconvenience we suffered on stations was that they removed all the rubbish bins.

 

About the only inconvenience we suffered on stations was that they removed all the rubbish bins.


I`m not sure it was, people just started to throw rubbish all over the platform and in the end the stations had to employ someone to pick it up

 

There is no doubt that Britain is now an authoritarian democracy - do as you're told but you can change between dictator Tweedledum and dictator Tweedledee every 4-5 years. Unless the one in power decides to declare a state of emergency, of course. Just as in Eastern Europe in the Cold War, pursuing harmless interests such as photographing railways is subservient to the paranoia that is encouraged by the state.

Do you realise that this government plans to give instant fining powers to people like nightclub bouncers? No doubt, 'security' goons on stations will get the same powers.

But in the Cold War, there were some in Eastern Europe, who struggled for freedom and they eventually won. What a shame that the great British public generally don't have similar guts. I admire people like the guy at Milford Haven who took some photos of industrial locos, and stood up to the police harrassment that followed.