Changes to lineside photographt on the Bluebell

The latest issue of Bluebell News reports that from 1st January 2010 a new style Photographers PTS certificate will replace the old lineside photo permits.If you wish to undertake lineside photography you must book onto a course through the customer service team at Sheffield Park.The cost of the course will be £30 and the certificate will be valid for 12 months.It does not suprise me that the Bluebell has decided to take this course of action due to the HSE culture we are now all subject to.

 

Wonder how that affects those with permits that do not expire until well into 2010.

 

Yes mine and my Dad's current Lineside pass is valid until February 2010, so could either Richard, Sinclair or Tom give some clarification on whether that is now void please. Also whilst I except this was probably inevitable I do think that charging £30 for a PTS certificate that will be valid only for one year is very steep, surely a 2 year or 3 year validity is more exceptable for the £30 charge.

 

I posted this on another thread:-

I got my 'Bluebell News' in the post this morning and it contained, amongst other items, that the BB is going to implement a PTS course for linesiders from January. This is by no means a bad idea, but there are a few queries which perhaps someone 'in the know' might be able to explain.

1. Will current lineside passes still be valid for their full 12 month period?
2. There are, currently, restrictions on where linesiders can go, will any or all of those be lifted for holders of a PTS certificate?
3. Will the BB PTS be valid on other railways?
4. Will a calendar of when the PTS courses are held be published?

Regards

 

I've got a B.R.S....

Allows me to go on the track at the KESR, pending another medical - this time from the NSH .

So would that allow me to go on the track out of interest?

 

I've got a B.R.S....

Allows me to go on the track at the KESR, pending another medical - this time from the NSH .

So would that allow me to go on the track out of interest?

The report in Bluebell News states that PTS certificates issued by other organisations are not valid on the Bluebell.I guess they have to keep a record of who has been issued with a PTS.

 

I suppose this is another way getting money for the extension ?.

Regards

 

A normal yearly lineside photo pass for a BRPS member cost £20 each when we bought ours back in February and we thought that was pretty good value for money. When my Dad and I read about the change to a PTS course/certificate today in Bluebell News we were disappointed but not that surprised the Bluebell had brought this is. But we were shocked that the cost has now shot-up to £30 per person. For this jump in price a fairer reflection should be that the PTS cert. should be valid for 2/3 years.

Also the problem may well arise that there could be many photographers, who would have been prepared to pay the £20 lineside permit, will chose not to pay the £30 PTS fee but will still go on the lineside anyway. Look how much trouble the Mid-Hants has had in recent years since they banned all lineside passes. Photters still go on their lineside at galas, mainly because it is not policed very well and as a result have lost a potential revenue stream. Is the Bluebell now going to be sending wardens up the line during galas and everyday during normal services? If not many photters could chose to take the risk and not pay for the PTS certification. It will be interesting to see in the future whether the Bluebell actually makes less money from the withdrawal of the lineside pass and implementation of the more expensive PTS certificate/course. Personally my Dad and I will pay that bit extra and take the PTS course/certificate because we enjoy our photography at the Bluebell and like to help out monetary wise via the photo fees/membership fees or donations to the 32424 fund. But we do fear the Bluebell could become the next Mid-Hants and we'll end up seeing reports in magazines time after time of complaints that photters were on the lineside but without passes.

Rgds

David

 

People are already trespassing on the BB, hardly a visit goes by without the need to challenge someone.

Like most linesiders I not only spend money on membership and the lineside pass but also of fares, books, dvds, donations and what-have-you. The solution to the extra expenditure on going lineside is to spend less elsewhere. Certainly the critics of lineside pass holders who claim that the photters are freeloading will have to shut-up!

For me, it all depends on whether or not the current restrictions on lineside photography northwards from New Road Bridge to the southern portal of Sharpthorn Tunnel are lifted as a resulted of the PTS scheme. Surely there cannot be any justification for these restrictions if photters have the PTS certificate. We will see.

Regards

 

Or possibly safety first Chris?

Surely it will cost their insurance company thousands if someone wasn't to take lineside shots safely? And then possibly into Millions if alot were to fall fowl at the first post??

 

I'm only (mainly) aware of what was written in the BN artice. I do have an operational safety meeting to attend tomorrow where I'll be bringing this up (asking why certain operational roles are not included as it seems higglidy pigglidy to me!), so might add some more questions from here too.

I'll start by saying that I am firmly in favour of this PTS system as it will mean that those who are permitted on the track are fully aware what the risks are and how to avoid them - simply speaking. As the article says it is part of our Safety Case. It is the best possible way of managing track access without banning it for all - which in the case of Bluebell would be mad and incredibly backward as there is ample space for people to be and trains to run, where the current Lineside Pass scheme applies.

The new scheme will apply to all staff (paid or volunteers) and lineside pass holders starting on the day mentioned in the article (1 Jan? 2010). Don't know how it will work for visitors or contractors - I'm guessing that they will be supervised as now.

Only Bluebell Railway PTS will be vaild on Bluebell Railway track property. I highly doubt that it'll be valid anywhere where the current passes aren't. There are more risks within a depot/yard environment (not just from rail vehicles) and the tunnel, than on the main running line. Network Rail, LU, other private railway's PTS will not be valid.

In the case of David Hagger and similar, I would contact the customer service centre and explain your personal circumstance.

I also believe that the lineside should be more actively "policed", there are some staff that carry out checks and I believe that this should be ramped up to make sure that everyone trackside has the correct authority to be there.

I hope that I've answered some of the points raised. I might be able to add more tomorrow.

 

Thanks Sinclair for the info. Richard replied to my query on the Bluebell group. Hope Richard doesn't mind, this was his reply to the validity of lineside permits that don't expire on January 2010.

David, the question of unexpired existing lineside passes was raised at the last BRPS committee meeting, and the concensus was that to phase in the introduction as existing ones expire would be sensible, since it would avoid everyone arriving on January 1st for a training course (though this has yet to be confirmed), and also avoid the same for each subsequent annual renewal. The £30 charge is effectively only £10 for the training course and £20 for the certificate which repaces the lineside photographic pass (which was £20 for members per annum). Now if you become a volunteer on the railway, the one perk you get (other than a discount in the Buffets) is the abilty to obtain this training and photographers' PTS for free (unless of course your voluntary duties require you to do the full lineside-working PTS which trumps the photographers' version.

 

Hmmm, this sounds like a money making scheme. I do wonder what invalidates a Network Rail PTS for use at the Bluebell?

What is really sad is that the Government still has not got around to having a standard countrywide PTS, with perhaps special additional components for LU tunnels (A Pass?), and electrified lines.

Regards,
Tom

 

I saw this in yesterdays "Bluebell News" too, my lineside pass is valid untill next May. I dont have any problems with paying for the PTS as it seems to be common place at other railways.
I just hope that this "policed" properly as only at the gala last weekend end I saw a linesider in yellow High-viz who was obviously ignorant of lineside policies as well as probably not having a lineside pass.
I will be calling the office this mornign to try to book a place on a course, I just hope I can get on one at a weekend and its only an couple of hours not a full day.

 

I would have thought that on these days that as only one train is normally in use in the area that there will be a "supervisor" from the Bluebell. That to me seems the most sensible way of doing it.

Tom. The Bluebell is not Network Rail or any other railway. Our rules and operational procedures are different for a start. We would be responsible for ensuring that our lineside visitors know what to do - not some other organisation.

If the Govt ever get round to doing something like you say then maybe it would change.

Someething had to be done as it was foisted from the ORR. It's either this or no access.

 

Thank you for the response, I think you have covered most of the bases. I agree that there 'are more risks within a depot/yard environment (not just from rail vehicles) and the tunnel, than on the main running line' and I can understand why these areas are banned to photters, but I don't understand why the stretch of line from Leamland Bridge to the southern portal of the the tunnel itself is banned because there is ample room as this was once a double track railway. It's also irritating that this is a stretch of railway which has some of the best photo spots on it, particularly of a train coming out of the tunnel when the sun is shining.

Please can you mention this at the meeting you're about to attend.

Thanks

 

Sadly this meeting is just to do with operational matters (and how the new PTS will impact on operational roles). I will mention it to someone though!

The line from HK to Leamland bridge is rather narrow, but there is of course a public footpath. Between there and the tunnel it is of course wider. I reckon that access is not allowed as it is rather isolated and the only access is from the south.

 

I use to have a lineside pass for the NYMR and you had to take a PTS exam.It lasted about an hour you could take it in the week or at a weekend if someone was free.It lasted for two years cost was £30 plus your lineside pass at another £35.It would be good if you could take one PTS exam and it was vaild for all preservation railways.It would be very expensive if we were asked to take and pay for a PTS at every preservation railway we had a lineside pass for.Surely there could be one pot that all preservation railways got a share from all of those photographers taking a PTS exam.
I'm sure it will come I understand there was a incident at the recent GCR heavy metal gala when a photographer lineside got hit by a passing train.

 

First I've heard of it. Certainly heard no mention of it during the event. Not to say it didn't happen but if it did the grapevine has been unusually quiet about it.