Bluebell Railway Giants of Steam 2009

It should be remembered that many railways have planning restrictions or run through urban areas and as such may find themselves limited. The Bluebell I believe has a restriction on the number of evening services it can run from Kingscote, for example, and if they did run through later then any delay in the service might start eating into that allowance and thus mucking up the timetable for the future.

As to paying for a timetable, I really can't see the problem. It's not as though it's extortionate. I looked this up, not having been able to attend the gala, to see what the price was, expecting to see something like £3.00 for a sheet of A4. But no, it would appear the guide cost £1. Now come on, £1 isn't exactly the greatest sum of money to ask.

The cost of printing up all these timetables and brochures has to be met somehow, so asking for a pretty tiny amount of money for it doesn't seem that bad from where I'm standing.

But fine, stick to your principles, sounds like you're the one missing out on great galas as a result. Thanks everyone who did go for the various photos published.

 

Chris,
Was not referring to the BB directly. Anyway couldnt have gone due to work...
My point re timetables is that if it is produced in advance it can be used to advertise what is available, used as a marketing tool, customers can plan their day and then they feel they have had their pennies worth.
It is only my personal view that there is no REAL need to have to pay for the timetables.
In this day and age with this tinternet thingy downloadable timetables SHOULD be available.

Do Joe Public pay for their timetable?

I havnt missed out on great galas. Have been to plenty that have had great reviews.
Have also missed a crap gala (no names, no chit chat) that was slated for reasons A, B and C.....and that included having to pay for the timetable etc....

Regards

 

IMHO the passenger timetable for a Gala should be FOC but I think it's entirely reasonable to charge enthusiasts a modest sum for a WTT covering loco workings and non passenger workings in addition to passenger trains.
To answer Chris regarding late trains and the Kingscote factor, surely there is nothing stopping the Bluebell running later trains just between SP and HK.

 

The damned thing only costs £1 for goodness sake. Other railways charge a lot more and include an awful lot of stuff that the enthusiast really doesn't need. One pound! Some people will complain about anything.

As for running later I think it should be borne in mind that the engines have to be disposed off when they get back to the shed at SP. This will take at least an hour and the footplate crew will not be able to go home before it's done. Then up early the next morning to prepare the engine for the next day's work. It doesn't surprise me that the first train from SP was 'late'; but the preparation crew would have been at SP three to four hours before that.

Perhaps Spamcan81 and the other critics of the gala should think before they put fingers to keypad.

Regards

 

I totally agree about the timetable,what can you buy for a £1 these days!

However, as for the timings. I'll say what I always say when this subject comes up...other railways manage to run much longer days. It is a comptetive market and if people don't think they're getting value for money they will go elsewhere.

 

In response to the longer days, having seen the amount of passengers on the Railway for the 1st train of the day from Horsted at 10:25, the train was a quarter full, and only half to 3/4 on the way back to HK after picking up Bus passengers.

I arrived at Sheffield Park on the Saturday about 10, only a few enthusiasts with camera's and some families, however by 11am the place was rammed, with the queue out the door and down the driveway. And that only really happened near enough to 1030. By the time light was fading at 5, most people had gone home, now is that because its cold and dark and people want some food and warmth, or is that because the timetable didn't run long enough, you may ask. The last train to Kingscote was only half to 3/4 full of passengers wanting the bus home, very few stayed for a round trip of the line, and all the photographers had gone because the light had deserted them. Perhaps maybe combining the Gala with an ale train in the evening, similar to the the Steam Fair's a few years ago, and like the Spa Valley often do may give people an incentive to stick around for the late trains and make some extra cash??

 

Well, at least we can be thankful to the Swanage railway for holding long galas.

 

First up young man I am not criticising the gala, simply making an observation regarding the possibility of running later. I do think before I put finger to keypad. Other railways run later at galas, the SVR runs throughout the night at its. On the Bluebell the GA diner on Saturdays runs after service trains have finished. I've also been involved in night shoots at the Bluebell - organised both by third parties and the railway itself - that haven't even started until service trains have finished running. We've also had charters that start before service trains start running so I'm well aware of the requirements of prepping and disposing of locos on these occasions - done the job myself at times - and there's never been a shortage of volunteers to do it. Perhaps it is you who should do the thinking before typing.

 

I guess not, question is would there be a market for trains between, effectively, nowhere and nowhere after dark (which they would be at this time of year, especially on the Sunday after the clock change)? The only way it would work in the light would be to run them earlier, and if what Tom says is correct then there obviously wouldn't be a huge market for that. After all, as the Bluebell is in the middle of nowhere and at the end of a branch of the main-line, it takes a while to actually get there in the first place, it's not on anyones doorstep in the way the SVR or GCR are.

Perhaps next year when the Bluebell hosts some summer events, with the lighter evenings, for the fiftieth anniversary, it might well be something worth looking in to.

 

Well, you can't have one without the other. Is it the case that the railway 'suffers' its visitors during galas? If that's the case, we might as well all stay at home. To be honest, I'd like to see a break-down of the £16 gala ticket to see how much of it goes towards the line's upkeep before I can comment on this. However, withholding essential information from the public at a special event is not really a justifiable way of 'fundraising' (ok, it was a W/T with loco movements, and the times were chalked up at the stations, but are passengers in a queue seriously expected to jot them all down? What about an ordinary timetable for those who wanted a choice?). For £1, I'd have expected a better attempt at a programme, one that actually 'sells' the railway, and the 'extras' broken down by station, rather than lumped together in something that looked too much like what I write on MS Word.

I blame the 'Steam Steel and Stars' factor here. I'm probably biased because I've previously been spoilt for choice at galas, and I've been to a lot where the boat has been well and truly pushed out, whilst making a healthy profit (I'm not saying the Bluebell didn't on this occasion in terms of various aspects of the operation). I once again refer to the WSR who charge no more than £21 for a gala rover ticket (and have a leaflet version of the gala timetable for free, but without loco diagrams), they have 23 miles of line (when you include the Norton Fitzwarren shuttles) in operation, more locomotives in steam, and a highly flexible timetable with the opportunity to 'change' trains at several stations on the line. I call that 'value for money'.

The loco choice at the Bluebell was excellent, and the stations immaculate, but I still felt I didn't get my money's worth out of the line, primarily because of the inflexibility of the timetable. And the fact that the inflexibility caused me to spend money on 'extras' when I was going to do a 'tenner for the tip' meant that the railway lost out in the long run, as I couldn't afford this (I had turned up there from Swansea that morning, and left in the evening).

There was no need for that. Perhaps some people need to learn to take constructive criticism before putting their fingers to keypad. How self-righteous.

 

You raise some good points. It's a chicken and egg situation I suppose regarding demand for earlier/later trains. Without the passengers there is no point in running them but if there aren't these earlier/later trains then there will be nobody turning up for them. IIRC previous Giants have started earlier but then there's been a few more locos available plus usually a visiting loco to spread the load. Sunday was a good day for me whatever the timetable as I got two good shots each of 34059 and 1638 plus we raised a few quid for 34081.

 

Tom - The Spa Valley Fish and Chip special was sold out on Saturday night so if there is an attraction to entice people out/stay on and its marketed at the right price, they will come.

Matt

 

Nice to know we agree on the WTT ... but ok we can also agree that the steam gala business is a competitive market ... so just who was competing for the BB's customers last weekend ... and, excepting the SVR, just who can put on a display of matching pre-nationalistion and pre-group rolling stock and locos at any gala?

The only competitor the BB has is the SVR: they share the market; they are the market for galas of pre-nationalistion and pre-group rolling stock and locos; all the others do 1951 to 1965-ish. This has its virtues but they aren't the BB's competitors, not by a long way.

Sorry if this offends

Regards

 

Given that the railway is a not-for-profit organisation, of course 100% of the profit from the event goes to the line's upkeep (and the costs of running the event were somewhat reduced given that for this event we had no visiting engine to pay for - but I guess we had to spend quite a bit to get 1638 running in time). We've just spent an un-budgeted £40k on new rail to re-lay the track through the tunnel next year, for example, and that was affordable because this year has seen a 10% upturn in income.

I think it would be fair to say that the railway was very pleasantly amazed by the number of people visiting for GoS. With no visiting engine, and B473 not outshopped, the expectation was that the event would be really rather quiet, so the timetable was cut back to match that expectation. That people turned out in their thousands (considerably up on last year when we had the 7F visiting) was a real surprise. With only 25 people having booked in advance for the Friday, we were not expecting it to be busy enough to justify more than two engines in steam - again we were absolutely amazed at how many people came.

That there was no early train to/from Kingscote on the Saturday was I am told purely a mistake, down to the haste with which the revised timetable had to be drawn up. Once we discovered just how busy the Saturday was, we responded by adding the extra early train on the Sunday, so on the Sunday morning there were two un-timetabled extra passenger trains from Horsted Keynes - 10.25 to Kingscote, and 10.35 (replacing the freight train) to Sheffield Park. That both these were well filled was an indication that these extra trains were indeed needed.

As regards late evening trains - the planning constraints on Kingscote as a Terminus are very draconian - there is very little scope for running more than we do north of Horsted Keynes in the evening with our existing Golden Arrow dining trains, real ale and fish and chip trains, and there's also a ban on trains early in the morning (I'm not sure what time that is). Once Kingscote is no longer a terminus, the situation becomes much easier.

Regards,
Richard

 

From the Sectional Appendix.....

KINGSCOTE

The operation of the station, including arrival and departure of trains is limited to the period between the hours of 9.00am and 10.00pm Monday to Saturdays and between 9.00am and 7.00pm on Sundays. Only one departure is allowed after 7.00pm on any day.

Chris

 

Thanks for all that info Richard. Very helpful.

The one thing that really sticks out is such a low level of advance bookings for the Friday. That really must make planning a service very hard indeed, and explains a lot to me.

I guess down at the Bluebell that is something you will be getting your heads around for next year. Off the top, adding a unique (but low cost, should such a thing be possible!), attraction for that day may ensure a good turn out, and allow a more intensive service to be risked. And get a few more of us to make up our bl..dy minds and pay in advance. Can't think of what such an attraction should be though!

 

I can understand the attraction to a railway of having pre-bookings, but I have always found, for any outdoor event, that the unpredictable weather trumps everything. Best to pay on the day, even if it does cost a premium.

It's interesting that the BB was caught by surprise by the visitor numbers. It might just be that the visitors were caught out too! I appreciate that this might seem perverse, but I tend to avoid the mega events because of the crowds. Quite simply the more people there are at an event, the more likely you are to have unwanted guests in frame. It may be that this year's GoS attracted lots of visitors because it was expected to be a quiet weekend ...

Regards

 

Slightly off topic my concern is the PTS for Lineside Photo permits. I already hold pts at NYMR and as I would have to travel 7hrs each way for a test would this not suffice. Is it not possible to put a link in an email that one could print off and complete.

HWE

 

...and look up the answers....

 

It doesn't matter if an aspiring PTS holder looks up the answers, what does matter is that they know the answers and consistantly apply them.