Heritage Railway Magazine- Didcot to build 47xx class

I haven't seen the Heritage Railway article. I've checked the GWS web site and there is nothing about recreating a 47xx shown there.

Is this a case of starting a rumour and hoping it will be repeated often enough that eventually someone believes it as a fact?

Cheers, Neil

 

"Speak for yourself, I saw all the originals. They were used regularly on reliefs to the West Country expresses like "The Royal Duchy".
They had 5' 8" wheels, like Manors & Granges, also 76079? which I believe will allow them to run at 60mph on the main line. "

Buseng, you are a very lucky person if you saw all the originals (and probably more senior than I!) and I'm quite envious that you saw these locos doing what they were built for. Unfortunately all I can remember is that every loco I saw looked like a "Hall" but I was too young to know really what a "Hall" was! The exception was 2-6-2T 4141, I can remember it quite well at Bourton on the Water, but the number helps and of course, it survived!

I visit the "County" page on the Didcot site regularly and they are definitely coming on with it. A 47xx would be wonderful, especially seeing the photo of one in full colour in the latest Heritage Railway, but a photo is about as far as we're going to get methinks.

 

Thanks to Churchward with his standardisation policy, we can have these sorts of discussions. His foresight is an example to anyone involved in product design involving standardisation. A 47 would be a great loco to have, but given the fact that in the UK we probably have more than enough steam locos for the work and money available then perhaps a real new build such as this is questionable. If, however, the flanging blocks for the boiler could also be used for a Castle and many of the patterns for cylinders, wheels etc. could be used elsewhere then perhaps the investment would be worthwhile.

With respect to the mainline, the 47 was officially limited to, I think, 50 mph due to balancing. So if you need 60mph and real pulling power then why not double head a couple of Halls?

One of the strange things about the 47 was the lever reverse. Swindon did draw up the design for a screw reverser but it was never fitted.

 

My age is in my profile. Suffice to say I managed to see the introduction of the Warships, D6300's, Westerns & Hymeks & hated them all at the time for obvious reasons! Let alone saw all the Kings, Counties, Manors(I think). However some Halls & Castles had been withdrawn when I started "trainspotting". It was very sad to see the decline of WR steam though.

 

47xx

It would seem to me that there are 3 problems:

1. The new project is bound to siphon off money from the other Didcot "new builds", and we haven't seen one completed yet.

2. The resulting loco is not an ideal mainlne machine for railtours. Its long wheelbase is not ideal for preservd lines either(20' as against 16' 10" for a 28xx, 16' 3" for a King).

3. The small number of bits that can be used (especially the lack of a boiler) mean that the project is much nearer to Tornado than the Saint.

Let see the Saint, Pendennis and the King out there before anyone starts collecting money for this (and let's not bother with the 4-4-0 County either).

Rob

 

You guys down there just don't seem to get it! - you have a wonderful line with potential to expand it, some excellent work on rare 4 wheel coaches but - oh dear - completely alien motive power preventing you from becoming a "serious" railway.

Nobody is going to "give" you an appropriate loco for the line but it is quite likely that say 6686 & 4115 might be obtained for very little from Welsh public authority ownership on the basis that:
a. They would remain in Wales - ask youself how many WORKING ex GW steam locos are now based in S Wales! (Zero??) - and how many there are likely to be.
b. They would go to an appropriate line
c. They would form an excellent basis for a youth employment restoration scheme in west Wales where engineering skills must be hard to cultivate. Perhaps this could be lottery funded? (think big but if you don't HAVE the locos it won't happen).


You will MISS THE BOAT if the "kit bashers" get hold of them to start yet another bastardisation scheme for these usefull sized locos.

Good luck - the whole movement would be behind you if you took on one or more of the Barry 10.

 

I would really like to see a 47XX, but in all seriousness why would the GWS try and build one of them when they have so many other projects on the go?

In my opinion I think they should finish off 6023 and get it out on the mainline earning some money, do a quick overhaul on 5900 and send it to a preserved line, again earning money. Then finish off 7202 and 4079 and get them out earning, with 7202 either at Didcot or at a preserved line and with 4079 on the mainline.

This way while the 'real' engines are out earning the much needed money for the GWS, they can finish off the many projects they have going on.

Also, I know there are many, many small groups at Didcot that are involved with only one engine. I think it would be best if they all concentrated on one project at a time. This way things would get done a lot quicker because of the workforce and because of funds, which would lead to results.

As someone said before, we haven't seen any finished products from the GWSs new-build range, so why add more locos to the list?

Anyway... I think I'm being far too sensible, although i'm sure many will agree.

 

Whilst I'd agree that the timing is probably a bit premature for this project, sometimes hands can be forced by circumstances - it may be that there is an underlying message of "do something or these parts will go elsewhere" that we don't know about. As usual, everyone is speculating without being in full possession of the facts!

No-one has yet made the point that the GWS operates a collection and this is an opportunity to fill a gap in that collection; restoring yet another 28xx or 41xx would not enhance the variety of that collection.

It would be good to see the Gwilli eventually acquire some of the remainder of the Barry 10 it would be lumbering thenm with a colossal restoration bill and I don't see any evidence that they have the resources to take on even one of these engines in the foreseeable future. I just hope they can find a way of bidding for b7760 or 4588, eiher of which would be a potentially quicker and no more expensiv route to them getting an ex-GWR engine.

 

The 47xx is a serious project, I was told about it 2/3 years ago and the plan then was to have 6023 finished first before moving onto the 47xx. Guessing those in charge feel 6023 is sufficiently near the end to start talking publically of this project, unless the plan's changed.

There are other plans for the rest of 4115, but can't talk about it on here due to the nature of the situation. However I'm sure we will all be informed once everything is agreed.

Is it feasible / worthwhile ? Well those that want to see one run will pay and those that don't wont. I will more than likely sign up as looking at pictures of them they do have a wow factor and a real presence due to their size. A 28xx on steroids is one way I've heard them described as!

 

Well said - about time the GWS got on with finishing some projects, and overhauling some of their locos and letting them out to heritage railways, rather than starting new projects.

How many "out of ticket" locos are there at Didcot?

 

Certainly no further locos should be passed to the GWS for dismantling into yet more projects until (if) the present ones are completed.
There are still quite a lot of financial and practical hurdles to overcome with the current projects. For example it is still rather difficult to envisage just how the 8f boiler will become a County one without at least as much work as starting from scratch would entail.

Meanwhile the currently out of ticket locos slowly deteriorate in the shed.

 

Not sure of the total number, but on a visit last week, the out of ticket loco's( which were static exhibits) included the following:-

1 Castle
2 Halls
1 Manor
3 Praire's
1 66xx
1 48xx

 

Didcot is not an operating railway, and neither is it particularly main line oriented these days. It doesn't need a big fleet of operational locos and, arguably, the out of ticket locos are being better preserved than those being run into the ground elsewhere and being modified to suit modern day operational conditions. But recreating lost locos that can't be seen elsewhere is enhancing its collection. My feeling is that the parts of 41XX and 28XX have more chance of running again as donors than they ever do in their original form

That's just my opinion, of course. Will I be supporting the project? No, because I'm an LNER fan and in my view there's already more than enough GWR around!

 

what Didcot needs (IMHO) is a museum building and custody of City of Truro and Lode Star. It wiould then be able to tell the 20th Century GWR express story pretty well, it would be a unique exhibtion I think.

 

60: according to Cook in "Swindon Steam" "they did tend to nose about a bit above 60mph". Hence when a second batch was contemplated Collet eventually decided to build Castles instead as the extra flexibility would outweigh the cost (same source). These being the days they are I imagine (without any kind of expertise or information or logic to base the guess on) any limit imposed would be less than Swindon's.

 

Perhaps Didcot should be concentrating on taking better care of those they have, rather than cutting others to start new projects - which may never be finished (how long has the Saint project been around?)

 

Time for me to be controversial! I'm interested in developments regarding all creeds and colours on Britain's Railways, but being a Southern enthusiast, I'm beginning to think 'oh, not another GWR new-rehash-build-unrebuild-bodge project' (as far as I know, we Southerners can only lay claim to the Brighton H2 Atlantic 32424 'Beachy Head' and the Lynton and Barnstaple locomotive currently being built on the Ffestiniog) . But each to their own, and at least the GWR crowd have the luxury to recycle engines that would otherwise deteriorate further. I still find it interesting, though.

 

A "proper" steam loco would be one that train spotters could underline in a combined vol I guess ?.

 

Take a look at GWS Locomotive List to get an idea of the size of the collection, there are also the coaches and wagons on site at Didcot, a number of which are in need of restoration. I believe the GWS has the single largest collection of ex-GWR rolling stock and motive power; not forgetting all the small artifacts that are in the GWS collection.

I think the problem is that the fund-raisers find it easier to raise money for these so called "Special Projects" than for restoring the remainder of the collection.

 

I'm afraid I've not seen the article in question. Are there any quotes from the GWS confirming any intension to build a 47xx?? Or was someone just stuck for "news"?