4965 Thread

There is hardly any room inside a Castle. There is just enough room to oil round but some parts are rather difficult if the loco's inside motion isn't in a certain position.

When oiling the inside big ends and eccentrics for example, you have to sit on a part of the brake rigging and reach over the cranks, your back is against a frame stretcher and on the other side of that is the huge vacuum cylinder. Not to mention the boiler being right above you.

It's a bit of a struggle but once you are sat on the brake rigging it's not so bad.

If you ever visit the Steam museum in Swindon you can walk under 4073 and see all the inside motion... And the lack of space.

 

It's much the same with a 56XX, which also has two inside big ends and two sets of valve gear. Get it set correctly and you can indeed heave yourself up onto the brakegear and just about reach the multitude of corks for the various oiling points, albeit with a rather warm throatplate toasting your backside. When our 6619 was at the North Norfolk Railway earlier this year, I was amazed to see drivers oiling up over the top by squeezing between the boiler and the valve gear and sprawling full length to get at those big ends and eccentrics! Not something I would wish to do!

 

thanks for that, will go and check out 4073

 

Nah that's cheating, you can actually stand up in that pit!

 

You may be able to stand up but can you reach the rods? Or even pull yourself up on to the brake gear? small pits do have advantages!

For oiling up inside motion engine you cant beat a 38 where you can slide in from above to get to all the motion.

 

Well, they say that GW drivers have to be humpty backed dwarfs with five foot arms to crew them: humpty backed to shovel the coal off the floor (on tanks), a dwarf to avoid banging your head on the cab doorway and five foot long arms to reach the brake handle whilst looking out. These attributes also come in handy when it comes to oiling them up. A humpty backed dwarf to get under the thing and five foot long arms to reach up and oil the shaft, etc. You have to wonder whether Churchward fitted this description?!!
It's a good job Stanier didn't perpetuate these things.....

With apologies to the politically correct brigade. I did leave out any references to Welshmen, though!

 

I don't believe George Jackson Churchward was a 'humpty backed dwarf'. But Trollls, now there's an entireley different subject altogether.

Please take this reply in the light hearted mannner it was posted.

 

Strikes me that there is just a hint of mischievous prejudice creeping in here. Perhaps you would care to tell everyone how much room there is inside the frames of a North Eastern Q7/B16 or a GNR N2. Absolutely anything with two sets of Stephenson motion inside the frames is not going to be easy. There is certainly no real problem oiling up a Churchward two cylinder, like everything else, you just have to discount the rubbish written by pundits who have never done it, and work out the easiest way. Also have to say that the only engine that I have ever managed to bang my head on the cab doorway was a LNER B1, which my LNER contacts used to tell me were notorious for it.

 

Mischievous prejudice? Never!!!
Two sets of Stephenson, or Joy or Allen between the frames isn't too bad; it's when you add the inside cylinders, as well that the pain starts. I never said that other locos weren't awkward to oil up; the Schools is almost as bad as the 56XX, with all the clambering about it entails. There are many locos with difficult oiling arrangements. It's something that draughtsmen didn't seem to bother about until the last steam designs of Ivatt and Riddles.As for oiling up a Q7, I haven't done that for a while but from memory you can reach everything from on top, without climbing up into the motion and toasting your rear end so it's not too bad. You can certainly do the Q6 from on top if you position it correctly.
I've banged my head on quite a few loco cabs in my time but the GW tanks - 42XX & 56XX are by far the star performers in getting in the way of my long suffering nut and I'm not what you'd call a tall guy.
You still need 5 foot long arms to reach the GW brake valves, though, if you want to look out of the cab at the same time and that comes in quite handy if you're buffering up to a set of coaches. And I never could get to grips with the idea of one handle to put the brake on and another to take it off.....
Not mischievous prejudice in any way

 

Right hand big end on the bottom, left hand big end on the front... Then you can get between the big ends and the throat plate on a Pannier. Of course, its tight, mind.

Having said that, when I visited the Ffestiniog and went in one of their 2' gauge pits at Boston Lodge, I felt distinctly claustrophobic.

 

Accordng to Cook in Swindon Steam the GWR reckoned 17 days for a major (80,000 mile) overhaul, with maybe a few days extra if something like new cylinders and extension frame or major frame repairs were required. Easy when you've got all the labour, all the equipment and a constant flow of work: rather more challenging with the relatively limited facilties available now.

 

That might be what the book says....... But if you look at the loco record cards Swindon could take anything upto 80 days to complete a heavy general on a hall....

 

Going off topic but, in the RCTS book on the 9F's, it quotes average overhaul times for a 9F Heavy intermediate as being:
Crewe 44 days
Eastleigh 43 days
Darlington 42 days
Swindon 113 days
Interestingly, Caerphilly and Stafford Road also did a couple of Heavy Intermediates and their works times were 116 & 113 days, respectively. These are just some of the many figures quoted for different periods but they are very representative.

 

I have it on very good authority that 5043 will be on the mainline a LOT next year....and not just in the Midland. Lots of classic GWR runs including at least 2 trips up Sapperton bank, which I remember being quite spectacular as I used to live there!

Can't wait!

Who cares what type of brakes you use when you have your own coaches?? I must say that the addition of the polish air pump to a Castle (and a Prairie as well) does interfere with the aesthetics on the port side.....

 

Don't half increase the loco's availabilty though!

 

If this thread is going to continue, would it not make sense for someone who can (i.e. one of the mods) to change the thread title? It's obvious now that Tyseley has NOT forgotten 4965.

Dave

 

Your wish is my command

Changed the title to 4965 Thread.

 

So how does 5029's availability compare with that of 5043? It does seem as though the vac brake castle did somewhat more miles than 5029 last year.