60007: The London Christmas Express 28/11/09

Surprised that there is no thread on this trip yet with 60007 providing motive power for a rare tour starting in Newcastle. Timings for Newcastle / Durham / Darlington / York are pretty tough so No.7 will do well to keep something close to time. Also an excellent path York to Retford to look forward to. After Connington the path is pretty slow but you can’t have everything!

 

Darlington to York in 48 minutes should be no problem No. 7 . The 53 miles from York to Retford in 43 minutes however will require something special ! Connington to KX in 2 hours plus is rather sedate though . An hour and half would be more like it !

 

This one has a diesel booked on the rear from Newcastle to London.I am assuming that this will also be the case on the return KX to Newcastle on 20th December.I won't be travelling on either.

 

I am actually going to a football match in Newcastle on Saturday so look fraward to passing the streak at speed!

 

Formation only has 9 coaches in it, excluding support coach.

4 Premier Dining
2 First Class
3 Standard Class

Must assume that diesel is for train heat, reversing out of Kings X, and return trip home.

 

They should get themselves a generator van then there would be no need for a diesel.
The load would be eleven if you include support and staff car.Very disapointing.

 

Twelve if you include Kitchen Car.

 

O.K its twelve,so why does the previous post say its nine?The box takes the train home and does the shunt.Why does it have to be on train.Because they don't have a generator van and because its cheaper to run the train with a diesel.They don't pay for the extra path to London.Yet they still charge top dollar for the tickets.They won't be getting my custom.

 

I have read elsewhere that a diesel runs light engine behind the train from Heaton to Kings Cross, then does the ecs to Ferme Park.

Best Regards

 

I am sure RTC are gutted!

Seriously, actually getting an extra path on the ECML would be quite an achievement and yet, it does cost for a light engine path. Railtour promoters have a difficult enough job making tours affordable and still turning a profit, so avoidable expense tends to be avoided. All reports I read of tours with a diesel on the back indicate that they only assist if necessary (and perhaps avoid a line blockage that might otherwise occur and how would that help the longevity of mainline steam?) and the rest of the time actually add to the weight and hence mean the steam loco is working harder - an issue perhaps for the locos owners and maintainers but surely improving the day for the passengers? It is no good saying "without the diesel, you could add maore carriages" as 12 plus loco is about the maximum length you are going to see.

Steam into and out of Kings Cross was unheard of for many years - surely, if the inclusion of a diesel to ease the shunt and provide a rapid means of removing the train should problems occur (or of avoiding problems) is a small price to pay if it helps make such trains a reality and indeed regularity (3 steam trains into the 3 in the next 3 days!)

If all is going to plan, I believe the driver will, after suitable route learning, be taking his first train into the Cross with this one - not bad to start with an A4 is it!

Steven

 

You've told us all that you won't go on a train with a diesel time and time again,do we really need to keep hearing it?

WCRC Have that Choc&Cream Genny van don't they? Where it is i don't know.....

Might be out somewhere between York and donny. Me that is,not the Generator!


What's the point in forking out for an extra path to London? I assume it isn't needed for heating? But then again?
Cheers,
Mark

 

My understanding is that the initial plan was for a diesel on the back but all credit to RTC it should be replaced by a generator van. Of course this might change again but I understand RTC were the ones pushing to drop the diesel for which they should be congratulated whatever happens.

Yes, Darlington to York is OK but look at the times Newcastle to Durham and Durham to Darlington and you’ll find they are a tough challenge. Overall the time of 92 minutes for 80 miles with two stops and a slow start over KEB and crossing in and out of Darlington is, well, interesting.

 

Just a question, all this talk of diesels for heating, genny vans etc etc.
What's wrong with good old fashioned steam heating?

 

formation is
6 x FO
2 XTSO
1X RMB
1XRBR
1 X GENERATOR
1 X BSO
1 X POB
THERE IS NO DIESEL IN THE FORMATION

 

Load 13, the departure from Durham should be interesting!

 

Sounds like a good trip with the A4. Is there a similar path for when it returns back North on the 19th? If so, I for one would be booking, Diesel or not!

 

December 19th, I only have start and finish times to hand at the mo;

Depart London 06:48
Arrive Newcastle 14:28

Hope this helps

 

I think the only stock that runs regularly steam heat these days in the 'Green Train' because the RMB has no ETH.

One problem with steam heat is the extra steam that the loco needs to provide. This increases water consumption significantly and thereby reduces the range between water stops.

WCRC could run a steam heat train, at least until a few years ago. The last time I can remember was 4771 leaving Kx. The sight of steam drifting up along the train under the roof at Kx with a V2 on the front was something very very special.

 

Although the 'Green Train' doesn't seem to have heating in every carriage though! We didn't have any when we went to Faversham.