Water Troughs

I very much doubt it...

 

A lot of mainline loco's have had the tender tank modified by removing the scoop to give the tank those extra few gallons that come in handy for mainline pathing, pretty sure 76079 for example has a larger than standard tank.

Surely some of the faster vac brake fitted freights would be exoected to hit that speed ?, and if not everytime the slow plodding freight pulled up in a loop or siding out the way of an express there would most likely be a water column handy anyway, and in the case of 28/38XX's and 8F's, the tenders were interchangable with other classes, that tender after a works visit could find itself attached to a Manor/ 43XX/ Black 5/ Jubiliee etc which most certainly would need scoops.

 

Surely some of the faster vac brake fitted freights would be exoected to hit that speed ?, and if not everytime the slow plodding freight pulled up in a loop or siding out the way of an express there would most likely be a water column handy anyway, and in the case of 28/38XX's and 8F's, the tenders were interchangable with other classes, that tender after a works visit could find itself attached to a Manor/ 43XX/ Black 5/ Jubiliee etc which most certainly would need scoops.[/QUOTE]

True about the speed of some fitted freights but not those generally worked by 2-8-0s. Tender interchangeability between classes also happened but was that really cost-effective? It's not a good idea that many hundreds of engines had to carry equipment that was only going to be used for a very small proportion of their time in service. And if it's not properly maintained there's a good chance it won't work when needed. I think a more probable explanation why so many tenders had scoops is that water pick up from troughs was effective at much lower speeds than 45mph.

 

Scoops will certainly pick up water at 25 mph. Quite a number of main lines were four track to segregate the freight trains and thus didn't have loops. It was normal for all four tracks to have troughs.
There was a long discussion about water troughs on another forum last year. The major debate focussed on what happened at the end of the trough! Some people took a lot of convincing that there wasn't an 'end' to the trough and thought that the scoop would hit this 'end' if it wasn't raised by the time it was reached.

 

I'm years too young to have ever seen a trough... so humour me..

but if there was no end, did the water just leak out, or was it balanced by a track gradient ?

Whats the technology making this so expensive to recreate ? isnt it not much more than a bloke with hosepipe, pump, and a really long bath tub to recreate it ? (In Winter it doesnt need to be used, nor when the line is closed)...

How common were water troughs on the network ?, were they ever deployed outside the UK ?

How effective are they, how much water could really be loaded into the tender using this method, in what distance / depth of trough ?

 

Well. no harm in being too young to have seen them. It could be quite spectacular though when tenders overflowed. There was no track gradient, the troughs were basically formed of channel-section metal plates and the base was angled gently upwards for a short distance before the trough ended so that the water wouldn't run out.

On the principal main lines water troughs were generally located at intervals of about 40 to 50 miles. from memory there were about 8 sets on the ECML between Kings Cross and Edinburgh. On that basis engines did not need to pick up to full tender capacity at every location.

In July 1964 I photographed at Goring troughs on the WR main line, which was four tracked with all 4 tracks having a set of troughs. The water was fed into the troughs from a balancing tank sited next to the up relief line and located just west of the overbridge often referred to as 'Lower Basildon'. This tank was in turn refilled from a tower type water softener located near where the line crossed the Thames about 1/4 mile further west. There was a steeply graded siding leading down from the up relief line to the softening plant, so that chemicals could be delivered to the site and sludge removed. No trace
remains of either the plant or the siding.

For several years in the early part of my career I had responsibility for an industrial water softener of similar type, and I can assure you it was a real pain to keep the thing working properly, never mind feeding it with a hundredweight or more of chemicals almost every day ( doubkle rations needed for weekends!). The one near Goring seemed to work automatically but how they managed that is beyond my comptehension.

 

For an insight into what is required for the installation of troughs take a look at one of Fastline Films DVDs Behind the scenes "Traffic"
North West Video Productions, Carnforth, Lancs
5-019399-104652

 

Freights picking up near Tebay with a description. Starts about 2.50 in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQPdRS-9p_I

 

Although the base of the troughs was angled upwards at the ends it stayed parallel to the railhead. The track was slightly inclined at each end to allow this. The tank would fill very rapidly, especially at speed, and it took quite a bit of skill and experience to get a full tank and not let it overflow, soaking anyone who happened to be in the front coach with windows open. Seasoned passengers would know to close the windows as the train approached the troughs! Getting the scoop out took quite a bit of effort whilst taking water, especially if you dipped it too far. The arrangement at the ends allowed the scoop to run out of the trough and it would then be a much easier task to lift it back up if you were having problems. You couldn't leave it down for long, though, as the tip of the scoop was below rail level and would foul on any crossing or pointwork. There's a scene of 60017 taking water in the Elizabethan Express. It is in part 2 and can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euX65WsaxNk&NR=1 If you've never seen Elizabethan Express before, it might be worth watching from the beginning! Part 1 at:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5kLJdCEgU4

 

This footage appears to be pirated of a B&R video. It would seem to me that pirating whether of pop songs or railway video is wrong.

Regards

 

Back in 1967 I remember receiving a soaking whilst standing next to the open window when the trough just south of Tebay was used. I was right next to the tender and the amount of water that crashed in was quite spectacular. I might say I was delighted by the experience; I was very young at the time and getting a soaking didn't bother me. After the descent of Shap we were travelling at some speed so I guess the fireman didn't get the scoop up in time before the tender overflowed. Happy memories!!

 

Some more water trough action circa 1925 with a LNW George and Claughton in early LMS livery giving the first coach a good soaking at 4m 50s
http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=75377
Thanks to the original poster on the LMS E Group

Dave

 

That film repays watching right through, as we see mainline steam on the two-year-old LNER, SR and LMS groupings. The website commentator's "Flying Scotsman (presumably)" is in fact SR N15 768 "Sir Balin", showing us why they later fitted the class with smoke deflectors. Shiny no. 454 of the same class is "Queen Guinevere". As she was built in March 1925, the year of this film, it could even be showing her first day or week in service.

I'm guessing here, can someone help? Was 850 Lord Nelson departing with some sort of wooden extension to the smokebox as a sort of Heath Robinson smoke deflector, or is there a less embarrassing (for Mr Maunsell) explanation for the contraption?

 

850 has an indicator shelter on the front. This type of thing is being discussed in the steam forum at the moment.(Anyone got a clue? thread)

 

Thread is: http://railways.national-preservation.com/showthread.php?t=21873

I'll take your word for it that it's an indicator shelter. It would be consistent with taking readings on a brand new locomotive. Bit of a comedown though, from the Midland Railway's glassed-in shelter of Victorian vintage, as we are assured in the thread.

 

A good April fools joke! In this months Railway magazine (April issue) on page 14 there is a small article about a water trough being temporary reinstated at Goring for the Vintage Trains organised ‘Bristolian‘.

 

The story is also in this months Railway magazine though

 

IIRC there was some talk a few years back of installing troughs on Levisham Straight. How serious this was I have no idea, but it was briefly mentioned in 'Moors Line' a couple of times.

 

I read that and I belived it, but now you pointed it out I feel like a a right pr#t.

 

Bit of a problem with the gradient.
Its between 1 in 175 and 1 in 230ish along the straight.