SVR Santas

Steven,

To be fair I dont think anyone has asked railways to exchange income from Santa's for that of photographers. I think the comment was that perhaps by removing the tinsel etc you could gain the photographers income as well.

However, if, as has been suggested, the paying passengers derive some pleasure from the loco decorations and this encourages their visit and generates income or goodwill then fair enough. Revenue is a priority.

In my personal view I would like to see stations etc decked out traditionally and the locos to have 'limited' if any embellishments. I am not keen on the modern lit up snowmen etc of the SVR. Having said that I would like to visit the SVR to photograph some of the Santa specials if that is permitted?

Regards

Ben

 

Further to Martin's post some lovely pics are appearing of Bluebell and Swanage Santas. Matching engines and stock and just small traditional headboards. Hopefully the 9F will be out out of Alton next weekend along with the various mainline specials in the South. With decorating finally finished there is plenty to go at if the sun is out!

Also as Martin says, most if not all photographers give plenty back to the railways. For example I am a member of two lines, enjoy travelling behind steam and have been on two railtours this year. This year I have joined photocharters that have supported the appearance of visiting engines and recently organised a couple of charters of my own which raised a good amount for a railway's appeal fund.

Fortunately the views held by some on this website of photographers don't reflect those of the many people I have met at preserved lines who are almost without exception very welcoming.

 

I am sure then that you were pleased that I forgot the Tinsel otherwise the Swanage Santa on Saturday would have had Tinsel!. The crews hats did. It helps with the atmosphere of what is a family occasion and brings a smile on many faces.

I'm not a fan of Thomas faces but again its a very imporatnat way of introducing the young to steam railways and for many of the smaller lines is a very important source of revenue.

I know its nice to photo locos on cold clear mornings but you often find those conditions at the early galas as well. :smt111

 

Unbelievable - put on a Scrooge special for them!

 

'They' wouldn't pay, though!
I genuinely believe that most photographers pay their way but reading some of the posts on here, I'm inclined to believe that the majority think that we run trains just for them (at no cost).
I'm sure that this will get lots of response but, if the cap fits, they can wear it.

 

Steve,

Aside from the fact that your rather scathing post contradicts itself, I haven't met any enthusiast who believes that trains are run just for them (except of course for the ones we pay for to be run just for us....).

Out of interest how many enthusiasts don't take pictures of railway subjects? I know many volunteers on preserved railways who like to take pictures and many of these are published in the railway press. You are taring a lot of people with your brush and I am not convinced the so called 'non-contributing photographer' that so many on here have a problem with actually exists. Also isn't it always the enthusiasts who are the ones that are asked first to fund major projects on preserved railways? Once these are paid for can they not be photographed by those that contributed or by the members or by visitors?

I think some posters on here should realise that every enthusiast contributes to railway preservation in some way and be more positive about everybody's input however small.

Regards,

 

I genuinely think now that this is all getting abit pathetic now, we're all involved in the same hobby here, whether its taking Photos or being a volunteer on the Valley. So why the need to run down photographers. I do alot alot of videoing on the Valley and as you can see on my signature.

Photographers pay there way when coming to visit the railway, whether its in the station cafe/pub to purchasing books or DVD's in the station shop. Alot of photographers buy lineside permits and also are a member of the Severn Valley. Also when photographers attend photo charters they are putting money into the railway.

Going onto the tinsel debate, again we do like to have the perfect picture/ video clip just like the volunteers like a perfectly tidy station etc and the santas are a time that all photographers look forward to. As Martin mentioned earlier Cold weather, intensive service and 5 locos on offer to get shots for. Many of peoples photos get sent off to Steam Railway/ Hertiage Railway magazines and also Severn Valley News, but the sight of Tinsel on the loco smokebox door can put them off. Which means no pictures and no P.R for the railway, which would be a shame as i feel that magazine readers etc would like to see pics of 6695 and also 43106 (when it runs) if they havn't already seen them run on the line. Okay i know the tinsel blends in with the time of year that we are in. But we are no scrooges, otherwise we would want all the decorations taken down from around the stations and Santa in jeans, t-shirt and trainers. All we are asking for a traditional santa special headboard and no tinsel which i thinks looks abit daft and untidy on the loco in my view.

We all want the Kids and the general public to have a good day out on the Santa specials and i used to love attending them when i was a kid. But its not as though the tinsel on the loco is the only decoration along the line that the valley have on show. The stations look fantastic and fair play to everyone involved. So shorely we can lose the tinsel on the loco for the coming weeks of the Santa specials.

Lets hope this topic soon quietens down abit as its all getting abit to personal.

 

Hunslet does have a bit of a point that CERTAIN (a very small amount i hope) people on preserved lines have a habit of "biting the hand that feeds them" where enthusiasts are concerned, when an enthusiast has an issue of some form or another, the standard reponse is generally pretty ignorant bordering on rude, the jist being "sod off you freeloader" , yet when your star loco needs a new boiler and has an appeal running to fund a new one who do you turn to first ? why enthusiasts, many of whom could stick two fingers up to your appeal as a result of previous ignorance.

My point being a bit more understanding from ALL parties on such things would go a long way, railways have to make a profit to survive and good pictures in the general view are the best publicity possible, wish more people could try and work at such things that just descending into a slanging match.

On a pernsonal note, in the past with the Santa Special shots, to get round the headboard issue i've generally experimented with side on/panned/Silohuette shots, a bit of tinsel on the front should be got round in the same way id of thought, that said im pretty sure ive seen a pic of 5764 with tinsel on the handrails down the side tanks, how do you get that out of shot ?.

 

Aside from Galas and Photographic Charters, financed by the photographers themselves and tending to focus on particular locomotives or historical periods, surely all other present day photography can only be about recording the reality of day-to-day heritage railway operation in the 21st Century?

At this time of year that reality includes stations crowded with happy families, men in red suits with white beards, Christmas illuminations, headboards, tinsel and, oh I almost forgot – large amounts of cash passing through the booking office window – Ker-ching!!!

It looks like reality doesn’t suit everyone. Dry your eyes, Princess!

 

Surely a very true comment. In the 1950's were people looking to re-create the 1920's? No, there was a want to record the present. Why has this stopped now? What are we going to regret not having photographs of in 20-30 years time? Life, and railways too are evolving - surely the excitement should be in capturing that evolvment, rather than hankering after a rose tinted view of the past?

And secondly is the concept of "Correct" - What makes a scene correct? It appears that current thinking is Right Loco + Right Stock + Right Location. ( Preferably working hard and in sunlight but these were always a given.) Yet wasn't one of the most sought after shots that of a locomotive off it's own patch for whatever reason? Why does, for example a pre-nationalisation loco+livery look wrong on Mark1's? Surely it is only because of an expectation that it is not "genuine" and thus it shouldn't look right?

It could also be argued that we're lucky to have steam locomotives at all to photograph - most have already cheated death, so perhaps we should be grateful for that which we have.

 

Bit reluctant to enter into this argument again and I fear I may be about to upset everyone. But the arguments seem to be very polarised into the fact that photographers either do or don’t pay their way.
I suggest that such generalisations cannot / shouldn’t be applied. Except for those with blinkers on I would hope that it is clear from this and other threads that some photographers do contribute to a greater or lesser extent. Perhaps financially, perhaps hands on. Indeed just as Thomas and Santa events can encourage future generation, can I ask/suggest that some may be brought through by photography. Certainly seeing and photographing railway vehicles is a reason (not necessarily the sole one) for my involvement in 2 groups in an admin and/or hands on capacity. I wonder if others fall into this camp?

However, as in all forms of life, some try to get something for nothing; and as Martin has identified on another topic there is the issue of free loaders on photo charters (how many are general public and hence ‘innocent’ and how many have planned to free load I am not in a position to comment).

Regards
Ben

 

''At this time of year that reality includes stations crowded with happy families'' -

unfortunately photographing that would probably get you arrested or thumped in this day and age!

 

Its a case of "Bah Humbug" Its Christmas, stop been silly

 

Time for an ugly sister award???

 

Guys, I would have never thought that festooning a locomotive with a little bit of festive cheer could erupt into a full on debate and pathetic teddy throwing from the photographers.
Yes I am one of the culprits that had "decorated" the locomotives last saturday, myself and many other volunteers thought it a nice festive touch, we think it looks rather attractive tastefully wrapped around the door dart handles of a locomotive, besides, its Chrismas, and the weather's rather crappy, it would just be something to brighten up a rather dull day.

Enough of that though, we need a solution, so how about we discuss what we can do to sort this out, we have 4 headboards to 5 locomotives, so which locomotives would you like to see with headboards, and which one would you like to see without a headboard but with a bit of tinsel/decoration to ensure the punters (Who do see the locomotives many times throughout the day) know we're making the effort to make things festive...

I would have thought you guys would like to see a locomotive such as 7812 or 42968 so adorned without a headboard because they are the locomotives that can be seen almost every weekend, but I'll leave it down to you and see what I can do with regards to your decisions when the weekend arrives

 

Leave it with some festive cheer. Bang loads of tinsal on them and enjoy the day. Christ I've stood on a Check point in ulster before now over christmas with a santa hat on and the G.O.C NI didn't give a tinkers cuss..

Yes "Bah Humbug"