London Underground wagons

Can anyone help with the following queries, please?

1) The current location of RW476, a bogie rail wagon, previously on the Glos-Warks Railway

2) The fate of brake vans B558, B580, B583, B584, B585 and B586

3) The fate of flat wagons/rail wagons F343, F357, F362, F384, and RW479

4) The former numbers of preserved rail wagons 531003, 531004, 531005 and 531006, and also preserved hoppers 531022 and 531023. Are these TOPS numbers to allow the wagons to operate over BR tracks, and were they built for LUL or BR?

Many thanks in advance for any help

 

Hi Phil
Brake Vans 583 & 584 are at the Acton Museum in the yard, not sure if they are actually preserved or dumped there. 586 was scrapped.
531022 & 531023 at the Ribble. I think these have been confused in the past and 531023 is the only one that exists there. From the photo it is identical to a BR Dogfish, however there is no evidence of a plate 'mark' on the frame and 531023 is painted on the middle of the frame.
The other 531xxx range of Rail Wagon were built at GCRW which would suggest they were probably built for LT but this needs confirming. I've never found any other running numbers for these and everyone I've asked can't confirm if they were ex BR or not. If anything they're similar to a sturgeon and GRCW didn't build any BR examples.
The others I have no idea.
I've also updated the well wagon thats moved to Didcot you emailed me with earlier.
Cheers
Steve

 

London Transport Stock

As we are repainting Pannier 7715 back into LT Maroon this winter at the Spa Valley, it got me wondering what LT vehicles have made it into preservation?

The Spa Valley is home to a flat wagon, LT crane and 2 LT brake vans. One of which is just a box van now, following an arson attack in the late 1980s. We did have another flat wagon once upon a time but this I believe went to the Glos Warks Railway.

You can't forget the Metropolitan T-Stock as well.

What else is there out there? I believe Bucks Rly Centre have another brakevan, hopper and two small flats.

It would be great to put together a decent rake of wagons to put behind L99 again and maybe recreate that final run on the Underground.

Matt

 

The Severn Valley have (had?) two ex-LT ballast hoppers, complete with hinged buffers and MU cables.

 

The Glos-Warks Railway has bogie rail wagons RW481 and RW484

The Didcot Railway Centre has bogie well wagon WPW1000

 

The IOW has some ex LT wagons and of course the Bluebell has the "Cheshams" now all in service.

Regards
Chris

 

Cheers guys. I think everyone knows about the coaches but its the wagons that disappear into obscurity. At the end of the day I guess they aren't as glamourous as the coaches.

RW484 was based at the Spa Valley prior to moving to the Glos Warks.

The Spa Valley currently has DEC crane DEC 622 and job carrier JC689, flat wagon FW397 and Brake Van B560. We used to have B556 until it was burnt out in an arson attack.

Of course we do have the only two surviving T-Stock coaches too.

It is hoped the flat wagon, brake van and at least one T-Stock will be in a runnable condition to run with L99 in 2010.

Matt

 

234 10t 3pl Open Buckinghamshire Railway Centre /1897 BW4
329 10t Mod Flat Buckinghamshire Railway Centre GRCW 1935
362 30t Rail/Sleeper Flat London Transport Museum GRCW 1951 F Pref
397 30t 4pl Sleeper Spa Valley Railway GRCW 1965
402 20t Hopper 'Herring' Swanage Railway GRCW 1935
410 20t Hopper 'Herring' Severn Valley Railway GRCW 1938
411 20t Hopper 'Herring' Severn Valley Railway GRCW 1938
418 20t Hopper 'Herring' Buckinghamshire Railway Centre GRCW 1951 EW102
421 20t Hopper 'Herring' Colne Valley Railway GRCW 1951
426 20t Hopper 'Herring' North Norfolk Railway GRCW 1955 op
429 20t Hopper 'Herring' North Norfolk Railway GRCW 1955 op
433 20t Hopper 'Herring' Lavender Line GRCW 1955
435 20t Hopper 'Herring' Isle Of Wight Steam Railway Shildon 1965 Havenstreet Shed 63435
436 20t Hopper 'Herring' Severn Valley Railway Shildon 1965
437 20t Hopper 'Herring' Isle Of Wight Steam Railway Shildon 1965 Griffen Siding 63437
447 50t Bogie Elk West Somerset Railway /????
481 50t Bogie Elk Gloucester & Warwickshire Railway /????
483 50t Bogie Elk West Somerset Railway /????
484 50t Bogie Elk Gloucester & Warwickshire Railway /???? RW45
556 20t Brake Van Spa Valley Railway /???? conv Compressor Van carries SVR Address
557 20t Brake Van Buckinghamshire Railway Centre Hurst Nelson 1935
560 20t Brake Van Spa Valley Railway Hurst Nelson 1935
578 18t Mod Flat Buckinghamshire Railway Centre GRCW 1935 ex Brake Van F330
583 20t Brake Van London Transport Museum Ashford 1961 carries LT95803 in error LT95800
584 20t Brake Van London Transport Museum Ashford 1961 carries LT95802 in error LT95801
689 Crane Runner Spa Valley Railway /1925 Runner for DEC622
1000 Weltrol Didcot Railway Centre Acton 1937 WPW Pref conv Diesel Generator in 1976
531003 Bogie Rail Flat Embsay & Bolton Abbey Railway GRCW ????
531004 Bogie Rail Flat Severn Valley Railway GRCW ????
531005 Bogie Rail Flat Ribble Steam Railway GRCW ????
531006 Bogie Rail Flat Foxfield Railway GRCW ????

 

I believe the "Elk" wagons are actually only 20t. They were built in 1950 by GRCW.

Is the one at the West Somerset RW447 or RW477 as I have seen it reported as both?

 

Cheers Phil
I'll amend the Elk's. I've only received reports of 447 at the WSR, although 477 would make more sense?
Steve

 

The IOW chose LT hoppers for the air brakes which are compatible with the locos used there. I was involved in choosing the two we bought. LT had about 12 for sale at the time (1985). All were in good nick, so we chose the newest! Sadly I think the rest went for scrap.

The two LT hoppers usually run with a BR Dogfish (DB992730) which has been through air piped between them as a three set.

Nick

 

Does anyone have details of the original number ranges and build details of the London Underground engineers fleet. The book of LU rolling stock by Brian Hardy does not contain these details.

The types I am interested in are the older c.1930-1960s types, which have now mainly been withdrawn from traffic, i.e.
Flat wagons (F prefix)
Hoppers (HW prefix)
Bogie rail wagons (RW prefix)
Brake vans (B prefix)
Well wagons (WPW prefix)
Older cranes (C prefix)
Jib carriers (J or JC prefix)
Older track machines (various prefixes)

On a different note, a old copy of a Severn Valley Railway stock book lists London Underground lining machine PTL764, but I have never seen any mention of this elsewhere. What were its build details and is it still there or has it been scrapped?

many thanks

 

Phil,

A good start would be to contact the London Underground Railway Society.

http://www.lurs.org.uk/

I was a member for a few years, not any more though. But they are quite good at recording renumberings and withdrawals of the passenger stock, so maybe they have details of wagons also. It would be worth asking.

Phil

 

LT Flat Wagon FW397

The Spa Valley's ex-LT flat wagon is to undergo a cosmetic overhaul in time to appear at the launch of ex-LT Pannier tank L99 in April. The vehicle is to receive new wooden sides and a repaint so that it can take its part in re-creating the former Watford tip train workings.

The latest updates can be found on the railway's website.

The railway is to also turn out a dogfish hopper wagon as LT vehicle due to the lack of an actual vehicle, to give the illusion of a ballast working. To see all this, be sure to attend the railway's Steam Gala on the 24th & 25th April.

Matt

 

Those few dogfish that LT used in the 53xxxx series are interesting as I've only just found out they were numbered as this for use on the Jubilee Line in the early 90's, (first extension?) as they did touch the mainline in places. This would suggest the Dogfish were BR originally so someone must have a record of these somewhere. It would also suggest that 531003 - 531006 were renumbered from the LT RW4xx series. Once again there must be a record of these somewhere? They were disposed of when the work was complete. This also leaves a question of whether the Dogfish were actually owned by LT or just hired in?
Steve

 

The LURS kindly gave me the disposal list for the HW4xx series a couple of years ago. They were all sold or scrapped between July 1980 and August 1986, so the Jubilee line 53100x vehicles must have come from somewhere else.

 

Am I correct in thinking LU obtained some Turbots in the 90s?
Are they still in use?

 

Hmm ok back to the drawing board for these then! Cheers Cav. So is it possible they were ex BR sturgeons 994xxx series that were only hired in for use on the Jubilee extension? I'm running out of options on these now. I don't have a decent full side on pic of the 531xxx to compare with.

Bryan - the ex turbots are still in use. They're on the list under Transplant Ltd, Greater London. SB231 - SB290. All the previous turbot, and before that, the original Bolster E I/d's are in other number.
Steve

 

Andy Forster, CME at WSR says "The vehicles are ex London Transport ELK 20 Ton bogie rail wagons built by Gloucester C&W starting in 1936, the numbers being 477 and 483. Later versions were updated with roller bearing bogies. As built the wagons were air braked and still are. Tare weight is 18t 2cwt. They have special coupling arrangements for coupling to standard BR stock or by hinging the buffers up out of the way they couple to LT electric stock. We have modified one end of each wagon by unbolting the buffer headstock in order to make use of a full 120 foot of flat deck..."

Probably old info but may confirm things.

Steve
(WSW)

 

Cheers Steve. I'll change 447 to 477 even though it's been reported as 447 in the past! Perhaps the I/d was wrongly applied later at the WSR or it was simply misreported?

Steve