NYMR Spring 2010 Steam Gala - Giant Gala of Giants

Jark91 · 19 mei 2010

Sidmouth zei: ↑

I guess (before I get shot !) is that the question is how many years do you expect to get out of an engine on the NYMR ? Is it the full ten years or is the reality that the need for an overhaul comes sooner and because of potentially more wear and tear is actually more expensive

remember as well many of these engines are increasingly old, certainly well beyond their design life and are now being asked to work as hard as in steam days
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This is what Steven said on the matter in this topic back in March:

...these are merely maximum terms (although can be extended slightly!) between full internal boiler inspections and locos often don't make the 10 years without major work. For most NYMR maintained locos, future policy is likely to be that intermediate overhauls are undertaken so that, unless major firebox surgery is needed (as is the case next overhaul with 30926 and currently with 80135), the intermediate wirk should mean the loco doesn't miss a full season (hopefully!). I hope to have a piece in the next Moors Line on future loco policy.

Autocar · 19 mei 2010

Edward zei: ↑

The gent that wrote into Moorsline has his own adgenda, when it comes to favouring hire locos.
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I know you did not imply this....but the fact that he has an agenda doesnt mean that his argument doesnt seem logical. Upon my return home tonight the latest Moorsline had a few letters of support for what M.Burns(? - not Monty Burns I hope!) had said. So I will perhaps await a formal responce in those pages. Somehow the original letter seemed awhile ago....

Sidmouth zei: ↑

Steven , many thanks for your excellent answers to the many questions posed and as a fellow accountant (FCCA) I appreciate the challenges faced
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Hear hear! (and not just the accounting revolution).
Without wishing to turn this into (another) election forum: I will be voting for Steven for the NYMR board.

Steve · 19 mei 2010

Oakfield zei: ↑

I suspect the reality lies somewhere between this post and that by Orion.

Yes, the NYMR were desperately unlucky with events over the Gala weekend, however loco shed projects do seem to have been delayed by the essential bridge 30 works and the severe weather over the winter period.

With this in mind and without blaming the locomotive department one must wonder if the management were wise in planning such a major gala over such an extended period.

Communication seems to be be a constant issue on the NYMR (and indeed many other preserved lines), both between internal departments and also with the public, who it must be remembered are paying to see the show.

I would hope that the NYMR are now asking themselves could a Gala of this size and time-scale be properly resourced, could the staff cope with the potential demands placed upon them, were the owing groups of the hire locos (where Steve seems, by implication, to be placing some blame) consulted and asked if these plans were viable for them and was there a plan B if things started to go wrong?

I must say that I have concerns about publicising an event committing locos. that are still awaiting completion of overhauls or planned maintenance after a previous busy season and/or main line works. We all know that planned maintenance frequently throws up other problems that require further attention.

There are lessons here, I believe, for the whole movement. I have for some time been concerned by preserved lines advertising 'bigger and better galas', many of which have run into just these sort of problems albeit on a slightly smaller scale.

To summarise, I would suggest that Railway managements must ensure that , when planning events, they can be properly resourced, that all departments are 'on-board' and not likely to be stretched beyond what is possible and that this does not impinge upon the railways ordinary services. ( No point in having a successful gala, financially then loosing revenue in the following weeks because services have to be Diesel hauled, while the loco dept. catch up on the backlog, which usually causes loss of revenue when non enthusiast passengers decline to travel on a non steam hauled train.

I also feel that it is unwise to commit the total running fleet to the gala thus leaving no reserves in the event of failures.

I hope that this post is taken, as intended, as a constructive review of what has happened and is meant to protect the interests both of the passengers and the staff of our preserved lines from disappointments and distress caused by what I am sure are well intentioned plans which then turn out to have been somewhat over optimistic.
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Your comments are generally about right but I will continue to defend the NYMR Loco Department in all of this. I should also say that I wasn't implying that the privately owned loco groups were in any way to blame. They, too, have all had their own problems to overcome, some of which were weather related, some unforeseen mechanical problems, which meant that their locos weren't available when expected. The NYMR, along with the loco owners do plan the usage of the locos over the year so that both parties know (hopefully!) when the individual locos will be required and when maintenance time will be available. I believe I am correct in saying that, originally, all concerned expected their locos to be available for the gala.
I have my own views on galas and I agree that endeavouring to get as many locos as possible is not the best option. I believe that putting on unusual operations is of far more interest in providing the necessary variety. There is a limit to the number of trains that can run between Pickering and Grosmont and we essentially do this on most busy days. I'd much prefer to see a small loco shunting around at (say) Levisham that yet another big engine being brought in to do exactly what the home fleet normally do.
I agree that communications is a big let down on many railways and the NYMR is no exception, there.

Bean-counter · 19 mei 2010

Just heading away on holiday for a week, so just a brief reply.

Unfortunately, the Press Date for the Moors Line just issued was around the same time that annual reports etc. were being finalised and something had to be left. I did contact the Editor to say I intended to reply but heard nothing more from him so assumed it was too late. I did, however, write an explanation for the purchase of 76079 in the annual report as follows:

Purchase of 76079

During the year, the Trust was presented with the opportunity to purchase the regular and popular visitor locomotive 76079. Clearly, with the Bridge and Wheels Appeal underway and the major costs of Bridge 30 and the Railway’s Contribution to Train of Thought in the next year and a half, the purchase could not be contemplated from existing resources. Hence, a business case was prepared on the basis of using savings on locomotive hire to fund asset finance, better known as Hire Purchase. This has the advantage that the main security for the loan is the locomotive itself, unlike the main overdraft and Bank Loan, which are secured against the land and buildings of the Railway. This Business Case showed that the finance costs and normal running costs would be covered by the value of use of the locomotive, whilst at the same time securing a locomotive for the fleet under the Railway’s control and which was the Railway’s responsibility.

As part of the Business Case consideration, the position of purchasing this locomotive, the condition and abilities of which are well known and which had at the time of purchase approximately 8 years before a full internal and external boiler inspection is due, against overhauling the S160 No. 2253. The overall cost (allowing for the resale value of 253 per a recent valuation) of the two options was similar but purchase of 76079 gave the certainty of a serviceable locomotive immediately, without consuming MPD manpower resources and thus enabling other stored locomotives to be worked on more rapidly than if 2253 was retained and overhauled.

The examination highlighted the need to ensure sufficient resources are made available each year to keep overhauls flowing at the necessary rate. For an organisation as complex as the NYMR, it will never be possible to put aside money “earned” by a locomotive when running for its overhaul due to the wide range of calls on current cash, but in order to maintain a position where there is a constant ability of the Service fleet to cover mileage, the money “earned” by operating locomotives must be invested in overhauls underway at that point. In this way, a rolling programme of overhauls to maintain both workload at the MPD and the running fleet can be maintained and this cross-check has been introduced from the 2010 budget onwards. Such initiatives as the current work on 75029 to give a new “10 year ticket” are also likely to be followed where possible to ensure locomotives spend the maximum time in traffic and never again due we simply build up a line of locomotives awaiting overhaul.

It is pleasing to report that 76079 has already proved its worth by operating a considerable mileage under NYMR ownership throughout much of the period since purchase, save for a short period of regular winter maintenance as expected when purchased.

Steven Hogg
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Good to see plenty of accountants about - like Sidmouth, I am an FCCA. I think a discussion of the costs of keeping steam alive is a good subject for here and will probably start a new thread when I am back if some-one else doesn't first!

Steven

Mike30A · 20 mei 2010

Footage of the N2 tank from last Friday/Saturday here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cyPd8PSC6c

An enjoyable gala despite the failure of Gresley on Friday.

Edward · 20 mei 2010

Autocar zei: ↑

I know you did not imply this....but the fact that he has an agenda doesnt mean that his argument doesnt seem logical. Upon my return home tonight the latest Moorsline had a few letters of support for what M.Burns(? - not Monty Burns I hope!) had said. So I will perhaps await a formal responce in those pages. Somehow the original letter seemed awhile ago....
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Ah, but we know him all too well!

As in many things, there is some truth in what he says, but how many volunteer loco owning groups can keep up with the repairs on a loco covering 8 - 10k miles a year? Take NELPG. They have worked their backsides off on the K1 & Q6 this winter. Have they really got the resources to have another loco putting in the miles at Grosmont? Not really.

The core traffic locos really do need to be railway maintained, supported by a number of hire machines.

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NYMR Spring 2010 Steam Gala - Giant Gala of Giants

Jark91 Member

Autocar New Member

Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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Aanmelden

NYMR Spring 2010 Steam Gala - Giant Gala of Giants

Jark91 Member

Autocar New Member

Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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Edward Member

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