48624

TB couldn't possibly go and see 48305 as the tender frame is from a fowler and the top from a stanier.

 

I'd hazard a guess that Joe Public, (who after all are the majority of the ones putting their hands in their pockets on most heritage lines), would much prefer a big red engine to a black one. Even more so if it had name too - suggestions?

 

"James the Red engine"?

 

Must admit I thought it would look strange - but i like it alot after seeing it running last friday !!

if fact ,its running today - off to the war weekend on the line now

http://john-robinson.fotopic.net/c1851791.html

John

Just returned and had a fine afternoon on the railway despite the weather - Most trains nearly full , Bands & concerts on the stations, hundreds of folk in period costumes .
71000 & 8624 in steam between Bury & Rawtenstall with DMU between Heywood & Bury. I expect it to get really busy on Sunday & Monday with the better weather forcast but ive other plans. Added a few more pictures but a few cameo shots still to add later
John

 

How about getting it sponsored by "Red Bull" ? Or take a leaf out of Wardale's book - "Red Devil" ?

 

Why is it everyone has serious opinions about the colour of the locomotive...
yet no one debates the quality or accuracy of the coaches it pulls..

Generalising here (not just the 8f not just the line it's running at either but..)
I'm sure the public care more about the stained floor, BR 1980's ripped cloth seats and grubby interiors, broken toilets and naff Bar,
than the colour of the engine pulling them.

(not highlighting any railway specifically here.. but invariably this is true for much stock in use today at many railways.)

When people are as serious about the accuracy and quality of the passenger stock.. they can turn attention to the engine's colour. (Which ever engine that maybe)
Otherwise livery debates hung off the argument of authenticity is somewhat hypocritical.

 

Isn't it strange that the guys that worked under a plastic sheet for years, spent many hours and many thousands of pounds re-working/replacing worn out bits of metal, did a fantasic job and brought life to another Barry wreck get no credit for that but all the comments about a £500 (my guess) paint job done it the last 0.01% of the restoration time. A locomotive pulls a train through a mechanical function not it's colour. Enjoy it as it is and if it really upsets you start a fund to repaint it. I am sure the 8F guys would love to hear from you.

 

Having seen John Robinson's excellent shots of the full tender on the 8F I did wonder if Farrish were going to introduce a new tender driven model.
http://john-robinson.fotopic.net/p64962511.html

If the war hadn't broken out we will never know if the LMSR intended to introduce a crimson livery for heavy express freight trains. The livery may not be historically accurate, but it does look very striking on this magnifent locomotive.

 

I am on record as saying that I'm not a fan of the colour as its not historically correct but (from what I have seen and heard of this 8F via the Net) it is a superb locomotive and the last 3 posts have summed up the situation very well. All credit to 48624's owners.

 

By carrying the unauthentic red livery, this 8F has created great interest. Far more than if it was in plain black. It can and probably will be painted black later. I think it looks beautiful. If it was the only 8F around, it would have to be black, but it isn't. Full credit to the owners, they've created massive interest and publicity for their loco.

Many GWR supporters probably don't like the idea of KE 11 appearing in BR blue. When that one is finished, maybe later this year, I think it will look breathtaking. It will be authentic and will be a beautiful sight coupled to carmine and cream coaches. Unauthentic or accurate but short lived liveries don't have to be permanent. It's only paint, after all. But they give variety that we should be grateful for. 46203 Princess Margaret Rose carried, I believe, BR blue for a period in the early 50's. I think that beautiful long-boilered loco would have looked stunning in blue.

 

"By carrying the unauthentic red livery, this 8F has created great interest. Far more than if it was in plain black. It can and probably will be painted black later. I think it looks beautiful. If it was the only 8F around, it would have to be black, but it isn't. Full credit to the owners, they've created massive interest and publicity for their loco."

Here Here!
I agree totally with the above.........Preservation is exactly that- to preserve for future generations, we aren't the owners- merely custodians.
The owning group have created massive interest and great PR for what would otherwise be a restored, Black 8F.
Added interest and publicity, remember there is no such thing as bad publicity, will without doubt generate income and income streams generate a device for ensuring it lasts longer than it's last boiler ticket.
They are preserving a loco for us to see, smell, photograph and ride behind, they aren't preserving a paint job.
Well done to the owning group for some out of the box thinking.
Dan

 

350310, I'm afraid you are showing profound ignorance. The LMS (not "LMSR") never intended to introduce crimson lake for freight engines. Lord Stamp was an economist of some repute, and he and the top management such as Stanier had their heads screwed on. Freight locomotives were painted them black because it was cheapest. In the 1920s many locomotives were painted red but intermediate livery (lined black) was then introduced for all intermediate (or mixed traffic) types as it was cheaper. The "Express freight trains" you mention would have been mostly handled by intermediate types such as black fives; eight freights were heavy freight engines. Only classes 5XP, 6P, 7P (i.e. Patriots, Jubilees, Scots, Princesses, Coronations received red (though of the last some were also blue)). So historically, it's not even a "what-if", it's a complete nonsense. The trend was going the other way, against red engines. Heavy freight engines never received crimson lake and never would have done.

 

Down at Swanage we are trying for a 50's/60's feel. But no points out the M7 is in 1940's Southern Livery, 56xx class tank engines never made it to East Dorset (although a fellow voulenteer remembers seing one at Dorchester West), The diesel mechanical multipal units never saw use in BR days, Signal Box at Swanage is in the wrong place. Also most trains up to the Mid-1960's used Mausnell. 'Ironclad' and some Bulleid coaching stock. We using Mark 1s....

I'm sorry but railway presevation, wether you like or not will never totally recreate the past. So why not have a bit of diffrence? With two other 8Fs and another soon (GWR's one, In LMS black I believe?) why not. Also there only two other LMS crimson engines in service at the moment so it nice to see this very nice livery on a another working loco.

Thinking about it not many people have moaned about the S&DJR 7F no. 88. As well not having the right boiler for S&DJR condition, it was never blue. But I like that alot as well.

 

I was driving down to the Foxfield Railway to do a spot of platelaying on Sunday with a friend of mine and we were just discussing 8624 when a song came on the radio which we hadn't heard before. The lyrics went something like, "you took a precious thing and painted it red". We were laughing to much to hear what it was called or who by. Does anyone know?

Even when 8624 does get painted black it still won't look completely right because it will be totally immaculate. Personally I shall just relax and enjoy the engine as it is. I haven't been able to get to the East Lancs, but the films on utube show a lovely even exhaust beat which does not come out of a paint pot.

Tim

 

I think The Rolling Stones' Paint it Black would be most appropriate.

 

Isn't this thread starting to get really boring now? I think the livery debate on this loco has been done to death.

 

Tim , it'll be this one ..
And I can't do this by myself
All of these problems, they're all in your head
And I can't be somebody else
You took something perfect
And painted it red

Daniel Merriweather - 'Red' (most be all those fire pumps he built).

 

Yet another self appointed ‘expert’ and, like so many of that ilk, rude and intolerant of the opinions of others.

There is, incidentally, nothing wrong with ‘LMSR’. If you were, at sometime, a member of the LMSR Board or Senior Management perhaps you would be kind enough to let us mere mortals know what exactly your responsibility towards locomotive livery policy was.

If you were not involved then your ‘opinion’ is no more valid than anyone else’s.

None of us know what might have happened if the immediate post-war government had been of a different hue and the railways had stayed in private hands. Liveries and livery policies have always been changing. Even the ‘sainted’ GWR saw fit to paint its coaching stock maroon at one time and the L&NWR’s Southern Division had bright green engines.

I think the 8F looks splendid in its present guise but it matters not a jot what I think; I don’t own it and I’ve never lifted a finger or contributed a penny towards its rebuilding.

A Caledonian Blue Duchess might look rather nice ………

Meic

 

To change this pointless talk about livery AGAIN!!!!!!!!!! Is the loco still on its way to the churnet on thursday?? i cant wait to see it running on the line. Our only lms loco on our lms line. We have s160's which never saw use on our lines but there we go