Mk1 & Mk2 carriage restorations.

Can you please tell me ,what it is like to restore a carriage from scrapyard condition to a restored carriage?. What problems can you face and what is it like to get spare parts and do you have to have parts made ?.

 

Mk2s are full of hidden corrosion horrors some of which can be structurally quite serious, plus the heating / ventilation system is tricky to say the least.

Dave

 

Thanks guy's.

 

It depends what version of MkII you are after but I know the later ones can be a particular nightmare because they include air conditioning!

 

Thanks guy's.

 

They are seriously big things like having another house . Two of us both with good skills with a couple of others took on a 1800 series MK1 buffet car that was semi vandalised. Despite the fact it was structurally the bestand on refirb bogies and with all its air brake intact but no vac. We spent many hours on it and made some progress eventually selling it on it was just too big a drainon time and resources .

You have to store it, stop it from deteriorating, and safe from theives and vandals. If it has bits missing they are usually complex or heavy you need to be able to weld and fabricate as well as be good at woodwork. Remember they were well put together by lots of skilled people at quite a high base cost.

If you embark on a project such as this you need the time and money to support it as well as somewhere to keep it . Every time you move it it will be 1200 quid. A descent base coach will cost you probably approaching 10K at present its 34 tons plus of iron at 120 /ton currently bear that in mind .

Best Regards Andy

 

It also depends on what length one is willing to go to in order to make the vehicle runable. Many areas can be overlooked and last for years with no problems, basically if you want a coach to last for 30 years with only minor repairs and repaints you have to strip it and rebuild. If its in reasonable order and you want it to do and last for a few years then a few patches and painting can do as well and an interior smarten up. but longer term is only going to cause problems.

 

Surprised that no one's mentioned the potential joys of asbestos removal either. There's 2 XP64s rotting quietly at Pickering, due to the stuff.

 

Excellent point XP64's being the worst affected !! one of which I remember was at DVR, but there were many other builds of mk1's that had combinations of types of Asbestos in them even as late as some 70's emu & dmu stock.

Even vehicles that were released from BR genuinly as being clean of the stuff often have bits of it hidden away on steam heat pipes or on catering vehicles in funny places, on gas pipe work or in ducts under the floor. Engage some one who knows where to look. Any potential buyer should be aware and search for it , with this experience is invaluable , the same as employing a rolling stock inspector to take a good look over the vehicle , even if its not official .

It may be wise to tell us on here what number vehicle it is your looking at, and then I feel sure a number of people here will tell you what to look for and where to look for it along with its history like where its been who is involved !!! and what to expect. If not the actual number of the vehicle , its type, build date, and location of build, and batch. Many of us have spent time researching individual vehicles to buy, as well as working on them, you will learn a lot from some people who have been there without even looking at one!!

 

Did anyone know that the gangway connection doors on mk1s often have concrete asbestos inside to try to prevent fires speading between vehicles..

 

Just a thought; Have you considered joining an existing carriage restoration group, rather than going it alone? There is, of course, a considerable volume of work involved in restoring a coach to working order. Many vehicles pass from one owner to another over the years with only small amounts of progress being made to their restoration because the project is simply too big for individual success.

Also, have you considered the possibility of getting involved with a more historic carriage, than those produced by BR? The quantity of MK1 carriages already in service on our preserved lines is massive compared with the number of pre MK1's available for use. There are a number of restoration groups such as the LMS Carriage Association at Rowsley, and the LNER Carriage Association at Pickering, covering the big four, and pre-grouping period carriages such as the LYR Trust at Oxenhope, who would be only too pleased to welcome you as a volunteer.

 

After being involved in the restoration of upwards of 10+ Mk1s and 2s there is a lot of myth out there!

I see a mention of the 'hidden horrors' of a mk2. Actually if you know what you are looking at, it's not hidden. We recently disposed of a Mk2c which are widely acknowledged to be the very worst for corrosion due to the reduced thickness of metal and the reduction in rust proofing. The bodyside was literally falling away yet the bit that is 'hidden' the lower bodyside triangle was clean shiny metal right through to the main underframe trusses.

The main problem caused to Mk2s is water ingress and the body ends and through the window. They are easy problems to solve and as long as you can weld, you can do the job. I have never seen a Mk2 with an underframe to cause any concern, again, even that isn't hidden, it's just covered over with thin sheets of steel, cut those away and you can do a thorough inspection. I have also seen other projects where the corrosion on a Mk1 is so bad that sections of the main underframe were being chopped out. There's a lot of strength in the underframe there but again, it's just metal and if done properly isn't a problem.

I also saw a comment about the air conditioning. It is true that the air con brings additional maintenance requirements. If they are looked after and you know what you are doing, then they generally dont give problems. The motor alternator set is a risk but just like the generator in a diesel loco, problems can be enountered without any prior warning. There are ways of repairing them but every so often they will go bang and you need to have a replacement just in case.

As we have found, outstation depots kept the best care they could of vehicles with the time they had and the staffing they had, corners were cut to keep things in service. On a preserved line, vehicles aren't doing hundreds of miles a day, a proper job can be done. For example to change a bodyside light in a Mk2 in a BR depot was a complete 8-hour shift job to drill out all the screws and do a proper job. BR just often didnt have that much spare time so you find only half the screws holding it in, the windows leaked and the water got in and rusted out. On a preserved line, time can be taken to do it properly, thus extending the life of the vehicle and curing the problem.

Looks can be deceptive, a poor paint job and some surface rust could hide a more serious problem or it could just be that, surface rust. At the end of the day it's all metal and if you know what you are doing, anything can be repaired!

Sorry for the lengthy reply but I've heard so much ill-informed comment, having restored over 10 vehicles now to varying levels it's good to put the record straight.

James,
Restorer of Mk2s!