Cumbrian Coast Explorer - 3 July 2010 - 71000 Duke of Gloucester

The 'Duke' is booked to return to the maain line on July 3 with HF Railtours' 'Cumbrian Coast Explorer', then again on July 15 with the same company's 'Heart of England Explorer'.

Having travelled on the last tour, I have to say that the Cumbrian Coast line north of Ravenglass is an overlooked gem and it's a totally different experience to the S&C (which the train will also cover on the return leg).

Just in case you think I'm biased, being based up there, there's a new video on YouTube that gives a good overall impression of the route (and the railtour). It features the last tour, the 'Cumbrian Coast Tornado' and can be found at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vutyLvahKVk

 

Bit of a lavish ad there!

Why would anyone want to tour behind steam sealed in behind double glazing?

Still - if they are daft enough to pay - we mere plebs can enjoy the spectacle, as it is a stunning route indeed!

 

Actually, there is a practical reason for non-toplight fitted stock! The tunnels and cuttings at the north end of the coast line (where most tours don't run) have extremely limited clearances and Network Rail won't allow opening windows on that section unless bars are fitted across them (as the old DMUs used to have) to stop folk putting their heads out... The one or two tours that have worked the section in recent years using Mark 1 and early Mark 2 stock have had to have the toplights wired shut anyway and stewards throughout the vehicles to make sure folk don't cut the wires off!

And while I wouldn't consider myself a pleb (!) and do prefer to stick my head out of windows to enjoy the sight and sound of the loco, I understand the reasoning behind the stock limitations. I didn't think £95 for a standard class ticket for 11 hours of steam haulage was expensive and, putting my money where my mouth is, I shall be on the next trip too!

 

Devastated I can't do this tour as only return from the Maldives early in the morning. The Northern section is a truly magnificent and under rated route. I've done it in the course of business in a Northern Rail cattle truck (do they have any other kind?) and it always takes my breath away. How the erosion has not closed this line is amazing. To do by steam must be brilliant.

 

The erosion is kept under control by large amounts of stone hauled in and tipped over the edge to stop the line from disappearing - at a not inconsiderable cost.

An illustration of just how barmy was privatisation was that the defensive strips along the coast were rejected by Railtrack as outside the limits of the operational line and a liability to be left with the public purse, which was a principal tenet of the share selling exercise.

Instead of contacting BRB residuary to take them back in a proper manner as a revision to privatisation errors, they bid for them secretly at auction per a solicitor who owned up to me as soon as the hammer had fallen.

You couldn't write it!

I was well aware of the clearance issues and the bars on windows - I just can't see the sense in paying for steam haulage and being insulated from it - at all!

 

I can agree with you Frank, If I'm on a steam hauled tour I like to hear the loco working through an open window. Some smoke and cinders is all part of the occasion too. Sealed in a box effectvely dums down the enjoyment of it all.
Might as well be on a timetabled service.
Brian

 

I do take the points mentioned - but nonetheless, for the northern section of the Cumbrian Coast line you are effectively sealed in a box whatever the stock - NR won't take any chances! So there are two options to get round this - persuade Riviera, West Coast or whoever to fit bars to all the droplights and toplights on a rake - which would lessen the attractiveness of the stock on any other routes and thus is unlikely to happen - or limit steam-hauled tours to the Carnforth - Ravenglass section. I think it's a shame we hardly ever see anything other than modern DMUs north of Ravenglass and if double-glazed Mark 2 stock is the only way that's going to happen I'm willing to tolerate it! At the end of the day, if enough people don't put hands in pockets and travel there'll be no more Cumbrian Coast steam...

On the last tour there were plenty of opportunities (other than on the top end of the coast line!) to stand at the droplights, stick your head out and enjoy the sights, sounds and smells of the steam loco - but most passengers these days tend to be of the 'non-enthusiast' variety and are happy to just enjoy the ride, leaving all the opening windows free for the rest of us!

 

I enjoyed the video a lot, it does look gorgeous. Some of those curves along the coastline look a bit tight!!

I can't make the July 3rd trip unfortunately, but I hope it's a success and will be repeated in the future.

 

The problem with clearances is only the section between Maryport and Carlisle. Ordinary bogie stock was (and still is permitted as far north as Workington or even Maryport) and in fact until the 60's there were daily Workington - Euston and a Workington - Manchester trains. All the outstanding coastal scenery is south of Workington. There is thus no reason why tours should not terminate at say Workington and the loco run LE to Carlisle (or the train run ecs) to turn and service. However to be attractive customers will doubtless require a coach tour during the extended servicing stop for Workington has rather limited attractions! Another option would be to bus customers via say Ullswater to Carlisle for the return journey.

For a short period the Cumbrian Coast Express ran steam-hauled to Workington where locos were swopped.

 

Thanks for that Steve - that's the impression I hoped to convey! Most people's impression of north Cumbria is that of floods or other disasters but there's so much more to it!

I can't claim responsibility of the excellent footage - that was shot by Ted Parker (helicopter shots) and Barry Atkinson (on train footage); I just pieced it together. It does give an excellent view of the part of the line most neglected by charters - the helicopter footage is mostly between Eskmeals and St. Bees.

 

All of this is true, and possible - but not terribly practical! An LE or ECS move like that would add cost to the charter, as would the need to bus 350 people to, say, Carlisle. Passengers don't want the inconvenience of having to alight and change modes of transport. It also has to be said that 80% of passengers these days are non-enthusiasts that prefer comfortable stock and aren't that bothered about having toplights open. And 100% of the passengers on the last trip thoroughly enjoyed it and had no complaints!

As for a return working just to Workington, the big attraction of the CCE is that it takes in both the coast line and the S&C in a single trip - so anything else would rather detract from the ethos!

 

I think people understand the reason why Pressue Ventilated stock is generally not allowed on the Nothern section Andrew, but understanding does not make it anymore appealing to potential customers, i personally woulden't book on any steam tour if there was even a hint of having to sit in an Air Con Carriage, Air Cons are for comfortable every days use or the 'days out' tour market, deeply unattractive for the enthusiast based market however.

That said, do i not recall reading there is sort some of exemption along the lines that PV stock is allowed if the droplights are stewarded ?, having a few windows down but ensuring no one looks out between say Workington & Carlisle seems an acceptable compromise to me.

 

As far as I am aware, on the recent tours that have used Mk 1 stock, the droplights have been wired/cable tied shut and stewarded.

End of the day, you pays your money (or not, in the case of many) and takes your choice...

Most of the comments on the previous trip seemed to be by linesiders rather than passengers and relate to the colour of the stock (problems getting the intended vehicles were due to the threatened rail strike), and most were quite positive about the use of air-con stock.

 

Could well by the case they were linesiders due to the stock rather than passengers so foolish to so readily dismiss their opnion i feel, a linesider on one trip is a potential passenger for another and it would be in a promoters best interests to encourage their interest (within reason) than belittle them.

Not quite sure why droplights required being stuck shut if someone is watching them, surely the problem is with someone looking out rather than if they are open or shut ? as allowing some sound in would cure most of the grumbles.

 

I think certain people are being a little unreasonable in their appraisal of this. 5 years ago, steam north of Sellafield was something that you would never expect to see again. Now, thanks to RTC firstly, and now HF Railtours, you can experience this. Okay, you can't get your head out of the window as much, or hear the engine as much as you can in your standard Mark 1, but when the alternative is nothing, I don't see how anyone can complain. On all of the previous trips, there have been plenty of heads out at the vestibule ends to sample the delights of the climbs to Lindal, Shap, Brampton, Ais Gill and Wilpshire; just not for the 'alley' that is Maryport to Carlisle. The fact that any steam is now allowed north of Sellafield is a blessing and all involved should be praised for getting it to happen.

Good luck to the tour operator - here's hoping for another sellout.

 

Thanks for your comments David. However, I didn't dismiss anyone's opinion! I was putting previous comments into perspective - linesiders are more bothered about the colour of the stock as it detracts from photographs, whereas those on the train are often less bothered. I travelled in the Virgin-liveried stock and didn't hear any complaints...

By the way, I'm not the promoter on this one - just an enthusiastic passenger! However, I would think that HF Railtours will no doubt eye on this thread and take a note of the comments.

In pre-DMU days there were no such things as bars on coach windows, but sadly time marches on and the Nanny state places restrictions on operators. The wiring of the toplights is merely an observation based on other tours I have travelled on recently on the coast line. But presumably, with up to 16 toplights and 4 droplights per vehicle that's 20 opportunities for an idiot to decide to stick their head out at the wrong moment. A steward would have to be pretty quick to stop someone - and there is always the chance one idiot will try something stupid. Look at some of the folk that trespass on the lineside and risk their lives just for a photo! One incident is all it will take and the promoter gets fined and railtours are banned from the line... A safer solution is to wire them shut, which is what's been done on some previous tours, or use a/c stock.

 

Great discussion, valued points. As a regular passenger on steam charters travelling on more than twenty tours per year i am looking forward to July 3rd. Few steam tours travel the length of the Cumbrian Coast route and surely it is one of the most scenic lines in the country. I travelled on HF'S Cumbrian Coast Tornado tour in April and i was very impressed by the high standard of service and attention to detail by the organiser and also the personal touch as he made the time to speak to everyone and yes we did stress the fact that we would like non air con stock. HF are taking a chance using Duke of Gloucester as July 3rd will be its first main line run, i for one wish them well and have booked on both tours July 3rd and 15th. By the way Andrew i very much like the video and i hope the weather is just as good on July 3rd.

 

How come the linesiders don't complain about the goggled heads hanging out of the droplights as the ruin of their photo?

It does seem sad that the passenger experience is diminished for those who travel to hear the loco working. The passengers are a mix of enthusiasts and Joe Publics. I have been on tours where the non-enthusiast has been really captured by the sounds and their views have changed. As previously stated though, the operators can't trust "those who think they know better" on what could be a disaterous stretch. It only takes one person to think "i'll just take a peek" and imagine the press; and impact on rail tours!

 

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Yes, the steel being torn off the loco's flanges comes right through the music!