Cumbrian Coast Explorer - 3 July 2010 - 71000 Duke of Gloucester

Time for a bit of realism.
If you look on most charter companies sites the first tickets to sell out are usually 'Pullman/Premier Class'. And from my experience those passengers are more interested in the quality of the food served and the quality of the service they receive. For example the Red Dragon being run by Vintage Trains sold out First Class and Premier Dining weeks ago but there are still seats available in Standard Class.
We all have to accept that the market is changing, and the enthusiast market for whatever reason is shrinking, so you can't blame the charter companies for pandering to the market that is going to give them the greatest return on their investment.
If this means giving those that pay the most the comfort they expect, so be it.

 

Response deleted!

 

Interesting comment from Steam Railway's interview with Marcus Robinson and Graham Bunker of Steam Dreams. They reckon on about 100 enthusiats per train to perhaps 300 non-enthusiasts. Not enough to make a tour pay by themsleves but a significant minority who often make the difference between profit and loss.

 

It is quite interesting to see how the gricer quotient on tours has fallen away in favour of the days out crowd.

Are there more tours per weekend? Is the enthusiast market less active, or more widespread across the heritage scene?

Certainly the economics seem to be that Joe Public is paying for our hobby, in which case - long may they do so, but it doesn't mean that I have to subscribe to their best bib and tucker, no cinders in yer hair outlook, or be less exact in my appraisal of standards of turnout or operation. That is what enthusiasm was always about

I can participate, observe, or do something completely different on the day - and still be no less an enthusiast, and I think the response from participants on tours to being observed from some of the platforms that we have used over years, From Land Rovers, to PD2s, to TBirds, indicates that the wider view is far more to the fore than the foul mouthed oik that we encountered at Kings Cross in April.

If you are happy for your view of steam to be from behind a double glazed unit - fine - I won't be joining you, I'll be the one alongside or on the lineside. But take a K1 onto the North East branch lines, or the Scot around the Pennines and I'll be the one looking out.

 

Just to mention at this point that HFR isn't just using Mk 2F and nothing else - on the upcoming 'Heart of England Explorer' (July 15), where NR restrictions on toplights don't apply, those who like to listen to the loco will be pleased to know that the 'Royal Duchy' set of Mark 1s has been selected. Don't all rush to book at once!

 

An interesting viewpoint. From my experience it would be unwise to discount the First Class/Premier passengers as non enthusiasts as this and other posts may imply. I routinely use premier as it is the bait for "er indoors" to join me. We are often surrounded by like minded enthusiasts who share an interest in the loco at the front an want to enjoy the soundtrack as much as the food. We, and they, don't mind the soot in our soup as it is a price worth paying. Maybe some enthusiasts are into creature comforts now and more than 25% of the passengers are enthusiasts.

I do agree though that the enthusiast market is the lifeblood as it is the difference between profit and loss - and the survival of this market.

 

I've got the solution in your search for the perfect photo of the perfect steam hauled train.
Instead of spending hundreds of pounds on camera equipment and then wasting time standing around in the middle of a field only to have your pic 'ruined' by people hanging out of carriage windows. Why not just sit at your computer and download a pic of a loco then download pics of the coaches you want to see in your train Photoshop 'em together et voila the perfect picture of the perfect steam hauled train.:cheer2:
There you are, I've saved you money and no more hanging round in fields.

 

Sounds good. Please tell me the place where I can download these high resolution files of locos and coaches in order to create my perfect picture?

 

Back to the original subject of this thread....

Hayden Fortune of HF Railtours was interviewed by John Gillmore on BBC Radio Lancashire this afternoon; you can hear in his own words the coaching stock choices and the reasons for them. The interview starts about seventeen and a half minutes in... if you want to listen in its on iPlayer for the next week at:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0085qfy/John_Gillmore_10_06_2010/

 

But the doors still have droplights and he encouraged passengers to hang out and have a look. Given the rational for the stock at the northern end, not a wise statement.

 

Yes indeed - not 'hang out' exactly, but certainly put heads out. As I've mentioned in previous posts, we were never prevented from looking out of the droplights for the vast majority of the last trip. However, for the Maryport - Carlisle section there is a steward positioned at each end of each coach to prevent people putting heads out. It's much easier to police two droplights each than two droplights and eight toplights!

 

Why?

If you stand a steward in each vestibule no-one has to see or shout more than half a coach length to maintain control - about thirty two feet!

Its overkill really, but if it keeps the H&S Nazis happy and permits steam over the route ...................

There are certain basics to the hobby and the clearances between Maryport and Carlisle are one - use the on train tannoy, the tour brochure, and the stewards to good effect, and the problem is solved.

Anyone who transgresses can be barred - if they aren't beheaded first!

 

I agree... save for the transgressors should be forced to exit at the next stop. That is a real sanction and if made clear at the start fully enforcable and legitimate. Thinking how they will get home if kicked off should focus the mind. This is a great route and if more steam can use it, all the better.

 

At the end of the day, the restrictions mentioned were an NR stipulation and must be done; but it's nice to see steam back on the route so let's make the most of it! It may not be an ideal situation for enthusiasts to have to sit in a/c coaching stock but at least those of us travelling are supporting 71000 and giving it the chance to go main line once more. If people stay away due to the enforced use of Mk 2f vehicles and bookings suffer, it may be that the 'Duke' and the Cumbrian Coast line both suffer in the long term; you never know, if these trips come off, in the future Rivirea might supply toplight limiters to stop windows opening more than a few inches, thus permitting the use of Mark 1s and early Mark 2s on the route... but it has to be worth their while!

 

The 'Cumbrian Coast Explorer' video has now been uploaded (without adverts!) on HF Railtours' own website - so those of you viewing this at work that have YouTube blocked (myself included!) can now watch it.

www.hf-railtours.co.uk

 

As a regular passenger on steam charters i think that without doubt the Cumbrian Coast Explorer is good value for money in comparrison to the Lakelander as one gets 340 miles of steam haulage and travel the full length of both the coast route and the Settle Carlisle plus the branch down the Ribble valley to Blackburn. I appreciate the issues with the air con stock and i will address the matter to Mr Fortune. However these days most of my travels are in the dining car and i can only complement HF on their Best of British menu and their high standards of customer service. Most importantly though HF are bringing the Duke back to the mainline after the best part of a two year absence, i wish them and all involved the very best for a trouble free run and i am looking forward to travelling on both tours.

 

From what i've read, the lack of opening droplights made the set a right sod to shunt and Bernard Staite said he had no objection to them being removed.

I do wonder if the window bars are more of a hiderence than help to safety, surely blocking off an escape route in an emergency ?.

I must say i agree with Frank's opinion, Stewards watching the droplights and a loud telling off infront of everyone (to deter them trying it again) to anyone attempting to mess with the smaller toplight windows seems sufficient.

It's no secret that Dining/Days Out is slowly making up more of the market, but a MetCam Pullman (no opening windows anyway) is a world away from a Mk2A, the two should work fine in seperate coaches 99% of the time.

 

Contrary to the slanderous and poisonous rumours that have been going around this weekend i have spoken to the owner of HF Railtours today and neither of his July tours hauled by Duke of Gloucester have been cancelled.

 

Anyone on this got a confirmed departure time from Crewe?? Unofficial time is 07.30. Quite fancy going but have to consider travel time from Kidderminster if they bring departure time forward.
Cheers
Simon