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"Skills For The Future" Lottery Funded Apprentices.

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 46118, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    The Mid Hants Railway have announced that they have been awarded a grant from the "Skills for the future" Heritage Lottery fund to employ five young apprentices, initially for a two-year period, and then another five in two years time. The Fund is in realisation that it is becoming increasingly difficult to find suitably skilled engineering people to maintain and restore heritage artifacts in the UK, given the considerable reduction in traditional heavy engineering operations.
    Each apprentice will work with an existing engineer in the Mid Hants workshops, and will also benefit from day release at a local technical college. They will also be encouraged to pick up skills from the volunteer engineers at the Mid Hants, many of whom are now in their 60s, 70s,and 80s.
    This is a "50%" grant, so involves considerable financial input from the Mid Hants to top up the Lottery grant.

    Another example if I may say so, of the Mid Hants demonstrating that it has seriously "got its act together", following on from the building of the wheeldrop, and the new boiler and carriage shops.

    Lets wish them every success.

    46118
     
  2. Stewie Griffin

    Stewie Griffin Member

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    Its excellent news, and to be encouraged. Its interesting looking through the list of other bodies who are part of this how comparatively few are within the 'heritage transport' sector. Well done to the MHR.
     
  3. Widge

    Widge New Member

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    Another imaginative initiative from the Mid Hants management who have provided a realistic answer to where the workforce is coming from to restore all those engines. Bring on the Standard Tank and well done to Colin Chambers, David Snow and all the guys and gals at Alresford!
     
  4. LN850

    LN850 Member

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    Apprentices should appear in sheet metalwork section, and some more around the bottom half of ropley works. Maybe even another biler apprentice will appear.
     
  5. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Because....?
     
  6. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    It's a measure to be commended, but nothing new - the NYMR has been training apprentices for many years. The head of C & W there is one of the earliest apprentices, and I believe the head bolersmith (and his predecessor) are both products of the sstem. I'm sure the other major railways are doing the same, and Pete Waterman is industrialising the process at Crewe! Hopefully other railways will recognise the need to do the same, with or without lottery funding.
     
  7. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    61624: Agreed that other railways/organisations have apprentices, and thankfully so, however the Mid-Hants appear to have done well to obtain some of this Lottery money to help with the costs.
    I mentioned this Lottery opportunity to another major heritage railway, and it is doubtful if they actually knew about it.

    Again, well done to the Mid Hants for being on the ball, and I guess having decent facilities in which the apprentices and their mentors can work.
     
  8. Woodster21

    Woodster21 Member

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    There is a similar scheme in Birmingham called the Working Neighbourhoods Fund (WNF) aimed at employers employing an apprentice who lives in a designated postcode area - the city council will pay the wages (at up to National Minimum Wage) up to 31/03/11 - with a possibility of paying the wages for a full year. If anyone wants any information please email me. A government backed scheme that has recently finished supported employers with a payment of £2,500 per apprentice
    Subject to the age of the learner (16 - 18 preferred) there is a lot of government funding available to support full framework apprenticeship programmes
     
  9. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Member

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    It is good that at least some effort is being made to attract new blood into engineering .

    However the system we have has taken over 200 years of experience to establish that 7, 5 , and eventually 4 years is the term of engagement to pass through a trade as an Apprentice. In the last 30 years we have seen a continual errosion of skill ability, for many reasons, such as the reduction in types of machinery , and the operations being conducted as well as the decimation of the trade school's and colleges.

    H&S has further reduced the range of activity and burdened the learner with extra curiculum.

    As I have said elsewhere 2 years is not enough engagement, and this is further eroding of the standard of artisan ability at the conclusion of their apprenticeship.

    The terms have been developed and been perfected over many generations, having just done yet another H&S management course it is obvious to all that getting competent staff is getting more and more difficult. Reducing the entry requirments and poor control of their performance under instruction, does nothing to help this situation, it will all come back to bite those who promote such reductions dispite how good it might seem at this moment.

    If the HLF really want to make a contribution to the future consolidation of this country then they need to seriously fund apprentices for the full 4 years. Set a decent structure to that obligation, to ensure the candidates both acheive personally and meet the curiculum set NVQ's do not teach you how to do a job they meerly demonstrate you migh have some idea how to do single operations . My experience is it rarely happens unless the Apprentice is personally interested and capable they have to put a lot into it as well as have the opportunity to be involved.

    I would recomend for engineering related trades the HLF look back in time to the EITB system or one of the big UK private training workshops, such as BR in the 60's or Rolls Royce to establish what skills and operations should make up the curiculum in an apprenticeship . Making phase tests with screw cutting square threads , multi starts and cutting key ways on a lathe etc , are key to making apprentices aware of the tallents they have to acheive by the end of year 2. If you cant face a job off and turn and bore a diameter to size, with a good finish, by the end of a couple of months in year 1, then your unlikly to meet the needs by the end of your time. your now asking them to do 4 years worth of learning in 2 years.

    I am not being pointed and seeking to demoralise, but its a hard old road, get realistic , to get to being good at engineering the target needs to be set high. As there is now a maximum working week for under 18's recomending they study and practice 50 hours a week is illegal, even if they want to. So I would like to ask whats going to be the output in 2 years time.I have met a lot of people comming in wanting a job yea I can do it yea I have experience in that, you take them on give them the benifit of the doubt, and they are gone within a short time we have a name for them "Half a job" .This is engineering your taught "The longest way is invariably the shortest way"especially if you only want to do the job once and right first time.

    I note that some of the preserved railways have trained some very good an competent staff who are now taking managerial places, as well as doing a good job with their skills.Well done to those railways and the young blood comming through.Maybe the HLF should talk to some of them to gain a base to work from, rather than accept what someone is offering as "Including Training" in their bid.I am sure that most railways have some very very tallented people who can instruct . The problem is it takes those instructors away from what they are trying to do as their profession. Training even the most willing and able candidates is a full time job on its own.Many of us have been there.When your split bettween training and production things invariably go wrong.
     

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