Welsh Mountaineer: Steam to Blaenau Ffestiniog.

Odly enough, they used an 8F image on the tour info page

http://www.railwaytouring.co.uk/index.php/the-welsh-mountaineer---july---august.html

so they cant win either way !

 

You would not expect that with packaged goods or a film. Bring in the human or rare mechanical element and most people would.

If you went to a theatre and a charecter was played by the understudy you wouldn't get a refund. Its a known risk of such an offer and a reasonable subsititue is quite acceptable.

Paul

 

I have a v strong suspicion that meltonnorth MIGHT be a major UK player. If he decides that the "game is simply too difficult" then the UK might find there are 100+ LESS steam tours in 2011 than 2010.
Personally, I suspect that Blan F will not appear as a destination next year............
Next year there will perhaps be a thread deploring the lack of N Wales specials esp up "steep valleys"

I am begining to understand why operators want the general market who don't or cannot tell an 8F from a Black 5.

BTW 1A regularly switched 8F diagrams to 5's(+diesel) +vv esp in 1962/3 so the change WAS authentic LMR,at least in London!!!!

 

So why is an 8F anathema to you? After all it's just a Black 5 with more, smaller wheels.

 

I've uploaded a clip to the website of 48151 at Roman Bridge on Wednesday, full coverage will be available on the 'Part 4' DVD.

Clip Available Here

 

Super clip Simon. The 8F looks and sounds superb - perfect loco for Llan - BF IMHO Glad you had a good week ! Not too many insect bites I hope LOL

 

It isn't. I quite like the loco for what it is. However, if RTC advertise a Black 5 and make a specific reference to the Black 5 TWICE in the first two paragraphs of their marketing on the web AND they know that an 8F is to be an option but don't correct it, well it is simply wrong! As the option of an 8F was posted on UK Steam weeks before, I don't think that their contract offers a defence to someone who wants to push it.

As I have repeatedly stated, I recognise that a named loco can't be guaranteed as last minute problems do arise. This is part and pacel of the heritage rail scene - loco's are very old and prone to problems. It is a credit to those who own and maintain them that we have the opportunity to ride behind steam. My issue is not correcting details when the issue is well known, albeit not to those who don't know where to look, ie UK Steam.

 

Thanks John, and no only a few this time. But I was prepared with cream this time so it was all good =] haha

 

You are entitled to your opinion of course but I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. If I had been fortunate enough to be on the trip it wouldn't have mattered one iota that an 8F was on the front as opposed to a Black 5 and I doubt many on the train were worried either.

 

Nice one and puts the "oo it wasn't a Black Five as advertised" whinging into perspective. I agree with 60017, the 8F seems well suited to the line.

 

dp266; we accept that you have an issue with a '5' being advertised, even though UK Steam showed the option of an 8F weeks before. Did you think to contact RTC and give them the chance to correct it ? As it appears to be such a galling issue, might I suggest you contact them now and air your concerns directly (if you haven't already)?

 

There seems to be a complete misconception about terms and conditions, exclusion clauses, and misrepresentation going on in this thread - so - at the risk of repeating myself - and getting up moderators noses, as they are getting it wrong too (nothing new there then); here goes.

As long as a steam loco was rostered for the excursion in question there can be no valid complaint. A steam hauled day out was sold and provided. End of.

This thread however has referred to exclusion clauses, and terms and conditions, covering operators making alternative arrangements after a product is advertised and sold as if this gives them carte blanche to advertise anything in any manner, and then supply something completely different with gay abandon. This is simply NOT the case.

Exclusion clauses can and will only cover last minute and on the day re-arrangements, and most definitely will not cover any seller against bad planning, misrepresentation and mis-selling.

Accordingly if an operator advertises a roster that is simply impossible, use of locos that are not even in ticket, etc, then they do it at their own risk - vulnerable to 100% valid refund claims and to prosecution under the Sale of Goods Act 1894 or the Misrepresentation Act 1967 to name but two, if an awkward client comes knocking - and they most assuredly do .

Exclusion clauses will not ever cover a lack of professionalism, lack of integrity and the making of reckless statements and never could. That is how such as the 1967 Act came to be drafted, and operators who issue promotional material that is rife with this type of puffery, let alone lack of proof reading to check names of places, etc deserve everything they get.

Reputations are earned, not bought

 

Thank you Frank, totally agree.

 

What a splendid idea then we can continue to talk about a superb loco working hard on testing gradients. I do however agree with TBridFrank who says that reputations have to be earned, although I am thinking that doesn't just apply to company's!!

Anyhow, after looking at the videos and photos I have been tempted so wondered if anyone know what the passenger loading was last week? Whilst being tempted it will probably be a turn up and pay on the day on next weeks trip if that is possible.

 

not much about this then, here's the 8F through Lancaster this morning:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42iDaC29C1Y

 

Two quick shots from the return at Helsby and Frodsham Viaduct;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvObNHLpHps

 

Excellent performance from the 8F yesterday wih no problems whatsoever. The loco ran at or near its maximum 50 mph for much of the day [45 mph tender first] Peter Kirk drove Preston - Chester and then stayed on the train for route learning up the Blaenau branch with Inspector Bill Andrew doing the driving. Both drivers agreed that the load 6 was probably at its maximum up the branch with a minimum 12 mph going into Ffestiniog Tunnel and most of the rest of the climbing beyond Betws-Y-Coed being done in the mid to high teens, although speeds in the 20's were achieved between Betws-Y-Coed and MP18 3/4. For those interested time taken from Betws-Y-Coed [pass at 33mph] to stopping at Blaenau was 34mins 15secs. The train was fairly well filled but included a party participating in RTC's "Snowdonia and the Northern Fells" package holiday who left the train at Llandudno Jn on the return and some passengers originally booked onto next weeks train [18 Aug] which apparently has been cancelled due to low bookings. Dave Rawlinson drove on the final leg from Chester back to Preston

 

I did see on the RTC webiste that the 18th Aug trip wasn't running as they had taken it off their website, UK Steam still has it on though but think it's in the process of being deleted??

Saw the 8F climbing well on top of some headland between Roman Bridge & Blaenau tunnel. Good sound it was.