The Pride of Swindon 5043 to Carlisle via the S & C -16th October

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Apologies for any offence caused. I really do appreciate all of the efforts put in by all of the support crews to keep mainline steam running. It was just that I felt that your comment about having to spend one night in the support coach needed to be put into context alongside many other support crews who operate their locos far from their home base and regularly have to spend several nights away from home just to operate one tour.

 

One of the best of the many excellent videos and pictures posted of this magnificent run from 5043 and her crew. Wish I could have been there. Not bad at all for a "spares" loco!

 

if only 6024 sounded as nice as 5043.to my old ears 6024 should sound as 5043 does,being able to tell imediately that it is fitted with a double chimney,sounding slightly 'hollow'.to my ears 6024 now has a rather strange sound to how it used to,my recordings of its trip to plymouth and par earlier this year the exhaust not giving any indication that it is fitted with a double chimney as compared with lovely sound 5043 was making last saturday as heard in and on the videos and recordings my friends obtained.i should say this not only my opinion on 6024's sound these days,i've had other people making comments for 6024 never used sound as such,perhaps the modifications are to blame!!?

 

A bit more than that, certainly on the leg where the 47 was 'off': from Bob's post earlier:- ".....so in addition to the 353 tons of the train, we had another 120 tons of dead 47 as well with the added drag of 6 traction motors freewheeling which probably adds at least another coaches worth of resistance, so that possibly takes it to load equals 14 or 15, or put another way 470 to 500 tons"

Marks video is fantastic, not least the sound. Could listen to that for hours! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfRjASNZyPI

 

Has there been a better locomotive performance this year? or in fact since steam returned to the mainline? Any views greatly received then quickly discounted

 

Certainly it showed just what can be done by a Castle in top condition,it was simply magnificent. I have been on many of the previous runs of GWR loco's over the S&C and this one put them (in the main) in the shade. She just kept going and going!


I would say it is most probably the finest perfomance since this one by a certain 7029 in 1967,which my father travelled on. http://mark-walker.fotopic.net/p63437190.html

H'mmmm wouldnt it be nice compare the 2 locos in the 21st century now its getting the Tyseley treatment!? Or even combine them


Glad you like the vid Stu


Cheers,
Mark

 

Thank you to all those who have made such a detailed film record of this superb run. I love the modern trend to place the loco into the landscape instead of doggedly linesiding, and there is no finer line for doing that than the S&C.

Thank you to all those at Tyseley who maintain and prepare this loco and train.

Thanks to Steve for unveiling that fabulous new GPS software kit. More at the end on that.

Thanks to the posters who gave detailed information about the diesel's power settings. I think this could be a really useful benchmark for future "was it pushing or wasn't it?" debates - if someone will please ask the driver to tell you the settings in words that he understands.

Thanks too to those who buy the tickets which keep the tours on the mainline.

Biggest thank you of all to the crews on the day. I suspect that if Bob Meanley is right and a higher power output per sq.ft. of grate has never been recorded, it has as much to do with the skill of the fireman as the tip-top condition of the loco.

Thank you sheep, thank you donkeys - oh, okay, end of Oscar show.


Steve, I zoomed the Google map into Ribblehead Viaduct and clicked on Hybrid view. As I moved the cursor along your graph, the blue bubble crossed the arches at speeds between 28-31 mph. This tallies with a posted film, on which you can time the crossing of the 440 yards at almost exactly 30 secs. I thought the limit over Ribblehead was 20, have they raised it to 30 after some maintenance work?

Great thread, NP should be proud to have such quality contributors.

 

Ribblehead 30mph. Has been since I signed it in 2001

 

Depends how you evaluate what is a best performance. At present I've seen nothing whatsoever re the log of this run. So I don't have even a starting point. But I am sure, (and very much hope), those details will come soon.

I guess one "test" amongst others could be if the magic 3,000 ihp was exceeded. Something I understand has been done by a Duchess, Tornado, (this year climbing Stoke Bank I think), and possibly by a Merchant Navy, (if not I think it was very close) in the preservation era. Maybe others?

Looking at the basic stats for a Castle Class I'd be rather amazed if it did! Those with more info that me will no doubt give some views and details on this.

 

Glad you found it interesting

I know lots of people have iPhones and other smartphones now, which gives the way to see another "dimension" of the trip. I used the app "Runkeeper" which is designed for runners (I confess to being one), but if you google "iphone route tracking app", you will find that there are lots that now do similar things. If like me you like sharing your info, probably the key feature to look for is what information the website shows, and how well it shows it - eg the example here about being able to track the speed of the train over Ribblehead. Since runners are as much stats freaks as gricers, maybe more so, Runkeeper is a natural, but you can't believe the stats it gives you like calories burned if you're actually sitting on a train.

You may need to ensure you have a window seat!

 

KentYeti, the links I posted above will give you some info about the trip, hope it helps.

 

Sorry you have missed the point, having been blinded by the mystical figure of 3000ihp.

Duchess/A1 3000ihp, 50 sq ft grate, gives 60ihp per sq ft of grate.

Castle 2200ihp, 30 sq ft of grate, gives 73ihp per sq ft of grate.

It is a simple matter of logic to deduce that in terms of the loco's grate size and its overall ability to burn coal and turn it into useful energy, the pacifics which you cite need to be worked somewhat harder to compare, ie in the region of 3650ihp (73ihp/sq ft x 50sqft). That leaves them with a bit to go at yet, particularly as the A1 has yet to match a Coronation. Do not always confuse big with beautiful, (although I too think Coronations are fabulous beasts). The mathematics of grate size and ability to burn coal dictate that it is physically impossible to get 3000ihp out of a 30 sq ft grate, but what these numbers demonstrate is that a double chimney Castle is, in terms of its ability to burn coal and turn it into useful work, an equally good, if not better machine size for size than those which you specify to be capable of 3000ihp.

Here ends the case for the prosecution!

 

I am not sure if it already got posted here, but if not, one of the best videos of the day in my opinion was by ACW71000 (Austin):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hq7nl9NpCU

Doesn't quite beat Linesider's genius bit of production, except perhaps on sound...... turn the volume up to 11......

Watch it!

 

Hmmmm... I think there may be one fact from the run in amongst all the above. The first I have seen. i.e 2200 ihp.

Plus a second "test" in response to the point I was responding to about the run being the best best performance this year/in preservation. i.e ihp per grate area.

And I must say from the tone of your response you will do very well here on Nat Pres. Plenty of others of similar ilk here. IMHO.

 

So really the LMS lobby would need to come up with some like-for-like figures for a 46115 run over the S&C, obtained using the same procedures.
46115 on its own best ascent of Shap slightly outperformed 5043's climb, at least in terms of time, and I believe it had one more coach on the hook, 12 against 11. But was the weather the same, and although the Stanier Scots were seen as a kind of "Son of Nelson+Castle", just how physically comparable are the two engines in their current form? For example, how big is the grate area on today's 46115?

I get the impression that Tyseley prepared specially for this trip, making sure the engine was in top form with best crews and best fuel, and having personnel to record significant data, including eliminating the variable of the diesel. Whether Carnforth/the owners of 46115 would be willing to engage in what some enthusiasts want, essentially a race for bragging rights, I'm not sure. Their main priority must surely be to make sure their loco gets out and back again on its many tours as reliably as possible. There is a long tradition of regional racing on Britain's railways, though.

 

Hope your not suggesting a blue Riband for 4.6.0s. WE will have no talk of Blue Ribands and such on the modern railway

 

Bryan,

Thank you for the kind comments on the tone of the response, it is gratifying to see that you have noted the similarity of the tone to that of your original piece.

Regards
bob

 

I'd like thank you Bob for coming onto this forum and contributing. Your input is valuable and much appreciated after this forum has frightened off many important people in the preservation industry.