Christmas Coronation-1000+ miles with 60163 in 3 days

Can we have some calm please. Tornado's steaming problems on Saturday will cause a lot of discussion and yes, the 'box on the back' issue is bound to surface as a result. A lot of the time its not WHAT is said, but HOW its said. Make a point if you want to, but try and think how others might interpret it.

We all post here because of our interest in railways and we get enough flack off non - enthusiasts without creating it within our own ranks !

 

I'm not saying anything about what happened Saturday because I wasn't there & do not know the full circumstances, but I think we, especially the people involved, can do without the funny "pro diesel" comments. I think the situation was bad enough as it was & the "diesel assistance" subject is sensitive enough as it is.

 

As I said, lets have some calm. The last thing I want to do is lock this thread temporarily for moderation, so lets just draw a line under alll of the above and play nice!

 

60163 near Abington on Saturday morning

 

Nice exhaust trail there Jack ! I'm a fan of shots in murky conditions, mist does add atmosphere. Like it

 

A mate of mine was a Newton Heath man and he has recounted times when the coal was more slack than combustible material but as you say, getting a replacement loco wasn't that much of a problem in steam days.

 

The young lady mentioned usually gets seen behind the buffet bar me thinks.

I think this is the lovely young Lady you mean, Nicky Fox , in pic at the bottom of the page :
http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?op...ch-mid-hants-railway&catid=55:2010&Itemid=234

Sad to hear that coal has caused a problem again. Sounds like it was a cracking trip otherwise from Tornado and her crews.

 

Shouldn't the caption read fire "person" these pc days? :confused1:

 

It's not a new thing either. There was a disastous collision resulting in many deaths on the Midland S+C route in the early years of the twentieth century (1913?) caused initially by bad steaming from poor coal. A Midland 4-4-0 was unable to make it to the summit of the line and stopped for a blow up and was then rammed in the rear by a following 4-4-0 whose crew had also been distracted by poor steaming.

 

There you go;

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=82

 

May I propose a compromise? Put a GWR Castle on the back and all your problems are solved!

Just kidding – we’ve had our share of coal issues as well in the last 12 months.

 

Mmmmm; what memories can do for us EH !!!! I suppose, this sort of accident aside, they just 'got on with it' Much easier of course as has been said, another loco could be summoned so easily. station pilots; goods train engines; bankers; etc etc. We do rely on everything going just perfectly now ! Doesn't always happen.

 

It would do good for some of the posters on this thread and others to read a number of the "tales from the footplate" books that have been published over the years. Then they may learn of the struggles over the years firemen have had in trying to get a loco steam with indifferent coal. Then they perhaps may not be so quick to point a finger when the same thing happens on this day and age.

 

One of the great conundrums of steam loco performance and coal quality can be traced back to the change over from coke to coal as the fuel of choice.
It's widely known that GWR engines 'preferred' South Wales Steam Coal and that LNWR and later LMS engines 'preferred' coal from the coalfields of the Midlands.
But it doesn't explain why restored engines today have difficulty coping with 'bog standard' coal.
If the perceived wisdom about GWR engines is true. How are the exploits of 5043 burning Daw Mill coal explained?
I can assure you that she wasn't 'modified' to burn Daw Mill......she just seems to thrive on the stuff.
When the second world war ended and the railways were nationalised coal quality was so poor that oil firing was seriously looked at.
Terry Essery in his book 'Saltley Firing Days' has quite a bit to say about the variable quality of coal he encountered during his career, and I'm sure that most footplate men from that era would have similar tales to tell.
There's no such thing as 'Standard Coal'.
As I said it's one of lifes great conundrums that will go on for as long as steam is about.

 

Quite agree although I don't quite know who is 'pointing fingers' ; rather asking I would like to think how the engines end up with the coal. You're right on the books; I have loads especially Midland Railway biased as I spent my youth living between Bedford and Wolverton in steam days; some of them excellently written and situations 'delicately describing' poor firing !! Good editing can bring the experiences to life. I bet the enginemen on Tornado could give a good account ! ? ! ?

 

Look back over a number of threads where a loco has run into trouble with steaming and there always seems to be somebody who hints at it being a crew problem. Maybe I'm mistaken but that's how it appears to me. I suspect the language on the footplate of 60163 on Saturday was a tad colourful and would need moderating should the tale ever appear in print.

 

Yes I remember when we had a load of coal delivered that was pretty poor, and when Daw Mill was contacted about it their explanation was that it had come from a new seam they had just opened.
Same mine, different seam. Just goes to show how variable coal quality can be.

 

Let's not forget that there may be no such thing as bog standard Daw Mill coal. Daw Mill acts as a concentration depot for several sources, including imported coal, where they are washed and graded and possibly blended too. So unless operators are able to specify coal from the N Warks seam to the exclusion of all others, you wouldn't be sure what you were getting exactly.

Don't forget it was Daw Mill coal on the ill-fated Silver Jubilee a few weeks back. But I believe it's widely used on tours, so may be this is a temporary glitch, but I'd guess there are some pretty warm phones at the UK Coal right now. Anyway, I hope they get to the bottom of it as Daw Mill employ a lot of folk round here, not that loco coal adds much to the balance sheet!

 

Yeah, I think you're right, always some blame to sling by one or other. But as Saltydog says, one of lifes conundrums (lovely word) ; perhaps they've never tried to light a fire in the fireplace with naff coal (or a sack of dust which would sometimes be delivered !!) . Problem is, and I'm sure our enginemen are fully aware of it, is that you probably don't know the stuff won't work until its tried ! And that might be too late.