Christmas Coronation-1000+ miles with 60163 in 3 days

I wasn't saying that there is such a thing as 'bog standard' coal, but trying to get over the impression that a lot of people think that 'coal is coal is coal' and therefore there isn't any difference in different grades of the stuff.
The impression given on here by some posters is that "it's black, lumpy and dusty" so it all must burn the same........sorry to disappoint you but coal ain't that simple.

 

True Kevin, I wasn't criticizing your post - rather trying to expand on it to illustrate the point you make above. Iain

 

Many thanks both, bring on her next run in them thar hills!

 

Just a quick one, as the tour was teminated at Rugby what was the total mileage worked by 60163 unassisted?

Thanks, Neil.

 

Just for this tour was 1039 1/2 miles.

 

Stephen, this link works OK for your video. Very nice too, well done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIvLMK-0lCA

 

I'm sure you're right. A mate of mine was on 60007 back in the 90s and the coal turned out to be a nightmare. Created loads of ash and the build up of the stuff in the smokebox played havoc with the steaming. Lots of shovelling out of the smokebox on that trip. All sorts of questions asked of the supplier but it was too late then, the damage was done.

 

Thanks for the prompt reply, Neil.

 

Another thing to keep in mind. The tenders are rarely emptied, so it is more than probable that the crew, after a full day, had used the fresh coal and were starting to use the stuff that could have been festering in the tender for weeks.

We had this problem on a long run with 6201 earlier in the year. We definitely had an issue with 5043 etc.

And 6024 has defo has a challenge on several occasions.

Daw Mill are a distribution point for all kinds of coal from several countries as well as their own stuff. Salty Dog is correct. We always request "local" coal, but the initial stuff from the new seam was awful. It clinkered really badly. It seems a lot better now.

Different railways swear by various sources. I believe the Great Central use Russian or polish (someone correct me here) and have great success.

As for the different regions of engines preferring different types of coal, I think that is a bit of a myth! I have a suspicion the myth might have died years ago if Henry hadn't got stuck in a tunnel until The Fat Controller came up with some Welsh coal.

My heart goes out to the A1 crew. I doubt if there was much more they could do. A miserable situation to find yourselves in. I'm sure they did everything but burn the shovels!

 

I seem to remember in the railway mag many years ago when the new BR was doing the loco exchange trials, they tried a Robinson 8K on the very best welsh steam coal and its coal consumption was almost 1/2 what had previously been in its tender. (I forget where it said it was from) This shows that bad coal is a double edged sword, not only do you get the problems with clinkering and ash in the smoke box, but as it has a much lower calorific value, much more has to be burned to get the same energy, leading to more clinkering, more ash......You get the picture!
I saw Tornado cruising at Rugeley an it was obvious she wasn't well.
Jim

 

Yes fresh coal may have been added at Preston. But on top of what?
To get to the fresh coal the fireman may have had to shovel a couple of tons of dodgy stuff to get to the good coal.
I doubt if a loco has ever been replenished with fresh coal into an empty tender on a mainline line run.
I was on the footplate of 5043 on it's assault on Wilpshire Bank and believe me were running on slack. I should know I had the dubious privilege of trying to find some lumps that would burn in amongst the dust.....until Bob Meanley took over firing duties and Dean Morris took over from me.

 

Coal is black and that's about as standard as you can get with the stuff! That's one reason why there isn't a British Standard. Not only can the different seams vary (and they do) but even the same seam at the same pit. Yorkshire's Barnsley bed is a good example. In places it can be up to 10 ft thick. The middle part of the seam is quite hard and shiny with all the characteristics that you want for a good loco coal, but the top and bottom is relatively soft and has entirely different characteristics. In the days of hand filling, where the coal was loaded into tubs with a shovel and transported thence to the surface it was reasonably practical to separate the good from the poor but, with mechanisation of coal cutting, conveyor belts and skip winding, any such idea becomes a non-starter. In pre-war days, the LMS and the others could be fairly specific in the coal that they bought, often dealing with individual pits and, being big users, could demand a certain quality. If Haigh Moor coal at Ackton Hall Colliery was good quality (and it was), the railway could negotiate to buy that particular coal. When the mining industry was nationalised, all this went out of the window and marketing was a centrally organised function. Coal was coal and the NCB would supply from whichever pit suited them, not the user; although transport costs generally kept this to the nearest mines.
Other factors come into play. Firstly, the best coal was generally the first to be mined at any pit so what is left today is unlikely to be the best. Secondly, most coal still goes to power stations and they require a higher and fairly constant ash content, which quite often leads to coal from various sources being blended. Thirdly, large coal is only a small part of the business and that for locos an even smaller portion. Home fires don't have a significant problem in burning coal with high ash content or low ash fusion temperatures (the main factor in clinker formation) and all that is being used on locos is essentially the same as is used for household sales.
I'm afraid all that you can do is pay your money and keep your fingers crossed!

 

Interesting and very valid point about the calorific value of different samples of coal too. To digress very slightly, this happens with DERV on occasion, as I have found from personal experience and my getting Trading Standards/Weights & Measures involved too. Supermarket fuel isn't always the 'bargain' it seems. 2p cheaper, but 10% less MPG - go figure, as the saying goes . Have also suffered poor Gas Oil on board ship on occasion too - at least in that instance our sending fuel samples to a lab for testing as a matter of routine led to some 'compo' for the fuel not being of appropriate quality...

Returning to the topic, as has been said in this thread, it's too late once you're out 'on the road' to find that what's in the tender/bunker isn't burning well. AS a matter of interest, how quickly can coal samples be analysed in the lab? It's obviously not as straightforward as testing fuel oil samples.

 

Everyone now is an expert in coal mining..

Leave that to the experts-rather await a statement from the main sourse not from armchair professors surrounded by an army of railway books which one can refer to.

Amazing how this forum get's side tracked and shunted off into a siding of trivia.

 

Reminds me of a silly story about an old chap on a miniature steam loco discussing the fire with and interested observer. They discuss about firing when the visitor says. "Well that fire is burning well, for coal" The old chap says "Pardon, I did not hear that." "I said, for coal"
"Oh, I thought you said something.."

 

Everyone on NP is an expert in something; that's what makes it so much fun!

 

Yep, you're right there matey,

For the people who had seen my ranting, It's me that has deleted it. I got a bit carried away with some of the posts on the forum. Sorry.

 

Putting some perspective on the debate over coal.

Compared with what is happening in New Zealand this train has no relevance in the scheme of things. IMHO.

A train that is mainly run for pleasure and fun. A big boys toy?

Using a fuel that can and does costs lives to mine around the world.

Just have to hope all or at least some of those 29 guys trapped underground get out alive.

And yes. I ride on the back of guys like those miners when I take my 21st Century steam fun. The same as everyone else.

Not sure if this has point has already been made.

 

That's a bit of a silly comment isn't it?

This is a forum: a place for discussion and somewhere people can express their opinions, no matter if they are true of completely off the wall.

Trying to figure out who is involved in the business and who is sitting in their classroom with a copy of Penguin's "How it works: the steam engine" is half the fun!

If you want to sit back and wait for an official statement, then may I suggest watching the news or reading a paper---- here it's interactive!