Stratford on Avon and Broadway Railway Society-change of plans

:drum:

I am sorry that I have seemed to upset the last reader, (Kinghamline). It is PAV's intention to explain things in a positive fashion, not answer for ourselves against an un friendly barrage of negative complaint stated for NO good purpose, except some kind of mischief.

Why I or any of my many colleagues should be termed patronising, is quite unfair, extremely negative and most of all totally without substance. Life is NOT long enough. I know Kinghamline is gone but you are still alive, stay that way in spirit friend!!

I am personally still supportive of GWSR and have offered assistance in financial terms as well as in other ways, but have been refused (with a deal with NO real strings attached) Please ask their COSEC! Did I swallow a dictionary, no its is called exducation sir. As far as the comment 'False Gods' is concerned, this individuals lack of biblical knowledge is obvious and is said (again) without any foundation.

Could I ask in front of the whole forum, 'I have had the courage to upfront myself and NOT be alias, as I thought it would be edifying to answer questions, I wonder if this negative commenter could or would be prepared to do the same??' If he does, I would take him to a children's organisation who is benefiting from the many generous and good hearted people at PAV. He may then just learn to realise the benefits of becoming positive in life. Sorry Kinghamline, time to jump out from behind your alias or retain it and just stay grumpy, but comfortably anonymous!! Come meet one of us on site and say what you have said directly to the those involved!!

Bless you, we would rather befriend you than try to get you back. PAV is vast and can survive negativism.

Rev Dave

 

Answer to the rather aggressive comments to Mr Blue Sky Thinking above.

The railway preservation movement in the UK, has a great history, so there is NO need to run to its rescue. Mr Blue Sky, it will carry on existing quite happily without your defensive comments sir, I am sure of that.

As far as the 'blue sky' random comments are concerned, I will reiterate, show yourself to us and we will happily unplug you from an arena of having to just guess, (getting unnecessarily angry and hot under the collar in the process) and we will show you!! Like the Meerkat says on TV "Simple isn't it?" Keep you hair on Blue Sky and get your facts right before bursting that blood vessel!!

Bless you and keep well

Rev Dave :thumb:

 

With respect David, I think you are interpreting the questions being asked of you as negative, when people are merely trying to ascertain where your finance/volunteer base is going to come from. We understand that your project is much more than just the railway, however being railway enthusiasts, it is this part that we are trying to understand!

As has been pointed out, there are a large number of railways within the area of the proposed BVR (please pick a name and stick to it-having 3 different names strikes of indecision!), do you not see that if those railways are crying out for volunteers and finance, then an additional railway in the area will also struggle for these resources and also that a new railway may actually damage existing lines by drawing away resources?

You were called patronising because of this statement "Those running railway preservation, would have none of the training and compassion, as well as social entrepreneurial skills that PAV urgently requires. It is a vast project and could not really be achieved by the typical level of understanding or propensity of average Heritage railway directors." How do you know that people within railway preservation would not have the training or compassion? How do you know that these directors would not understand your scheme? Do you know them all? Have you checked their experience? I would guess not, so I would suggest that you should not leap to rash judgements or you risk alienating people who you may later come to rely on.

Perhaps it would've been wise to have not said anything until you actually had something to announce? It's all very well proposing a railway with training etc etc and proceeding with 6 years due diligence, but I'm sure you would agree that until contracts are signed then the scheme only exists on paper! People are natually going to be interested in the scheme and want to find out more, especially when you 'announce' it on a railway preservation forum, but you can't really announce anything yet and cannot give any further details, so of course people will be sceptical! There have been quite a few 'schemes' announced on this forum in the past, and upon further questions being asked by the forum members, the 'scheme' has turned out to be a dream of one person with no support, no finance and no plans. I'm not saying that your scheme falls into this definition, but you will see why forum members have become sceptical until details can be announced and the veil of secrecy lifted.
You might also want to hide that dictionary away for a while - statements like "Under normal conditions I would agree, but his rendering shows he is not in anyway in touch with this vast matrix..." are long on words but short on much meaning!

Anyway I wish you the best with your proposal and I hope the next time you post it will be to announce something more concrete


Keith

 

I am NOT the Reverend Heathcote, but am another member of staff (Alec) using the Revs facility. This is to express the sad concerns I have, when tuning into what people like Kinghamline have said but more sadly what he thinks, if he knows!

In humour I must say, sadly the actual Kingham line is long dead and it would be better if its namesake didn't go the same way with limited thinking

What he actually has stated does not hold up or make any difference to PAV at all, neither does it make a modicum of common sense. He is also waiting to see if anything comes of it!! Does PAV owe this alias an explanation if nothing did??? This man is truly one with fixed and inflexible thinking and that is sad, as one who knows the Rev, also knows he is only here to explain to those who would like to know, he certainly has no available time to try and convince those who do not.

Come out from behind your alias Kinghamline, get some courage and we will show you what you are missing if you really want to know that is.

Alec Pointer

 

I remember one particular scheme that came to life on here where the 'creator' behind it aggressively attacked anyone who asked any questions about it....

 

I am sorry Keith that you have been hurt by my comments.

There is a little more to PAV than meets the eye.

To explain at this stage is not simple. It is a matrix of special alignments of which includes social workers, civil engineers and many more skills that have taken years to put together, including the future input of many commercial companies, but most of all the local people and their faith in us. Christian activists who care deeply for others do not from our experience commonly exist within the normal run of railway preservation directors. (NO criticism, horses for courses)

I will reiterate PAV is NOT a railway preservation concern, but contains something of this ilk within it. I did say it would require and explanation akin to War and Peace Keith, did I not!?? (Para phrased)

I came onto this forum to genuinely explain things to those who were in the dark and perhaps you are right Keith, it is not time yet. I will treat this as my mistake, desist and withdraw. Thank you Keith for the prompt.

Many thanks for your comments. If anyone would genuinely like to know more, I have given an email address.

Bless you all

Rev David :wave:

 

I am sorry Rev Dave that you feel it necessary to withdrawal for this forum, (it took long enough for us to get you up and going on it !!)

Keith has explained, he is a railway preservationist and this forum is really for this purpose only. Much of the internal complexities of PAV cannot be shed abroad at the moment anyway due to IP matters and other sensitive stuff, so it is frustrating all round.

I am one of your staff, (as you well know) and one of those genuinely interested in the Railway and Maritime element of PAV, yet understand some of the much deeper issues also. I can also understand that you are very busy and I for one am pleased that you have tried to explain things to a forum that was seemingly wanting to know stuff.

Please reconsider leaving the forum Rev, you've only just got here, as Keith implies, these folks dont know you as we do.

Alec

 

I am sorry to see the Long Marston site go the way of so many other schemes - especially due to its self enclosed military railway nature, which has fascinated me since I first met it in October 1987, and in idle curiosity Googled Proactive Vision Group - this is the text from another forum which came up as the first result. Adds a bit more light:

I am Rev David Heathcote. I live at present in Gloucester, but could be moving soon.

I am leading a multi faceted community project in the Berkeley Vale in the south west of Gloucestershire (not South Gloucestershire which is another county.

Most of those who follow UK railways have probably heard of it. It runs under the holistic banner of Proactive Vision. The railway is a part of the project, a part we call Berkeley Vale Railway or BVR or even BeaVeR line.

I was one of the three initial directors back in 1981 of the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway in the north east of the same county. I left that organisation back in 1989 partly due to an illness as well as other discontentments.

I effectively took a double decade sabbatical, only to return to the land of the steel wheel and road when asked to by a number of folk who saw what I had done in the past, realised what I was doing then and saw fit to encourage me to join it all together.

Instead of the usual PLC or Society led preservation railway, I decided that funding would be as multi faceted as Beaver's 'aimed at' future modus operandi.

I am intending to fund all of this community project chiefly by the deployment of my own international industrial endeavours, however, I wish to offer to loco and stock owners a place to reside and enjoy their hobby in the bargain. This applies also to the creation of an exclusive membership scheme, as applies to most if not all other private railways. (A regular democratically elected support body)

The Proactive Vision Group however, is made of an non democratic body of private companies, both altruistic and purely commerical.

We have carried out a very complex and deeply refined study on the branch, the docks, the availability of resources and the tourist potential. The findings where staggering, as this particular project, (in its entirety not simply railway based) seems to have been cocooned in a time warp. We exposed a potential which created a tsunami of interest from many quarters internationally, one of the 'prime movers' deserving of a mention, is the intense mixing of marine, wildlife along with rail transport. It also exposes the massive potential for commercial allegiance from industry outside of our own, (that is already built in)

The basic ethos of the whole of the Proactive Vision mission is Christian, with a built in training college for youth between 16 and 26 years that have undergone difficult upbringings that have created low self esteem. All of the projects different activities (including the BVR) are tools, NOT goals in their own right. Our motto is simply, "EVERYBODY BENEFITS BY EVERYBODY BENEFITING"

We will be training these young people, not as they do in the normal technical college for instance by building a brick wall for marks out of 10, then knocked down and all cleaned off for the next candidate, but to see the brick wall then left up to serve a useful function in the community at large, possibly with a small brass plaque attached to state who built the wall and who did the teaching.

Tourism potential and other forms of commerce is also being very seriously examined regarding BVR, in an attempt to created footfall and jobs in the said community.

Our organisation is called Proactive Vision, our aim is POSITIVE WHOLESALE COMMUNITY TRANSFORMATION!

We naturally have a few critics also our negative "You'll never achieve this" cynics, but they aren't doing it are they?? We have always, coming from the realms of intellectual property, know to look for the hidden meaning or agenda. By enlarge we experience massive support and are humbled by this. In relation to the support, we hear very little negative criticism (We do welcome and look for positive criticism though, especially when it carries offers of help to create remedy!

Thank you all for reading, please feel free to get back all of you as I would like to engage with you, especially in a positive manner.
Indeed can you help us in any way with this mission?

 

And this: http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co...-projects/article-1514900-detail/article.html

 

and one last for now: http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co...lway-line/article-1700662-detail/article.html

 

Does that mean the new railway won't run on the Sabbath? ray2:

Richard

 

The Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath Richard! I would be very surprised if it didn't run that day.


Thanks for enquiring

Alec

 

You cannot even get my username correct!
I use the name Kinghambranch on this forum not Kinghamline.

"In humour I must say, sadly the actual Kingham line is long dead and it would be better if its namesake didn't go the same way with limited thinking"

Well thank you very much for that threatening post Mr Alec Pointer. My username is Kinghambranch so you could have had the decency to get that right at least!
What you don't seem to have grasped here is that this forum is visited and supported by a number of people who are extremely knowledgeable about heritage railways, some of them work in the mainline as well as the heritage industry and all of them are very supportive of schemes that have a chance of success. As an enthusiastic amateur, I have learned a great deal and continue to learn from them. I reserve the right to remain anonymous but I am certainly not a grumpy individual. The work being done on heritage lines at present is amazing and you only have to browse through the threads here to be uplifted by it!

 

Crikey -
as mentioned above this sounds a LOT like the folk 'running' the unmentionable railway in Shropshire! I'm sure it's not the same people, but the fact that it sounds like it is worrying! People with grandiose ideas and no idea of the realities involved, people posting under several different names, withdrawing from the forum (or not), using high-falutin' language (but missing most apostrophes!!). At least our Salopian friends didn't bring religion into it
And did anyone note the implicit threat to Kinghambranch?

 

Thank you Anthony for finding this older write up from another forum. You are indeed a star, a scholar and a gentleman sir!

I certainly would not put our PAV leaders in a category of anything else but carers for others.

It took them long enough to find each other and form from various segments of industry to assist this very badly hit geographical area and its community. A community who wanted a railway themselves, not the Reverend, he was asked to do something with it firstly as a training ground for young disadvantaged folk, then things started to mushroom.

I think PAV unfortunately has been misunderstood quite wildly by some within this forum, with others defending them.

I will continue answering reasonable questions on behalf of PAV or Rev Dave. He feels it is best to withdraw personally following certain recent inputs. He is indeed a very busy chap at the moment and only ever wanted to stop folk guessing, not answer criticisms as to whether PAV should exist or not. There simply isn't the time or any worthwhile reason to debate something so fundamental as this. It is a company with a set mission, which has become far advanced and funded by popular support.

Thanks again Anthony for your input here.

Alec

 

MartinBall
Yes, I noticed it! I'm not sure whether it was meant as such so won't contact a Mod to request banning the poster. I remember Mr Heathcote from many years ago on the GWSR but he was no reverend then, perhaps that has irked them. What I find so sad is that most people on this site would actually support any nascent railway heritage project, especially one which was part of a bigger scheme involving the whole community with altruistic intentions.
I have supported a charity in Bangladesh for many years, give regularly to the RAF benevolent fund and British Legion (hence my financial support to the new Patriot locomotive) and, with a family member recovering from cancer treatment, I'm a firm believer in charities. So I don't feel that it is appropriate to be criticised by someone who goes from zero to nasty once a couple of forumites start testing their credentials. If the group's intention was to "trail their coat" to see who bit, then they have succeeded. I would support them if I thought there was a chance of success but now?

 

Yes Mr Kingham Branch or whatever alias you are. Keep you hair on my friend, nobody wants to harm you or threaten you, God forbid.

If you have a sensible question, then it will get a sensible answer. If you write in a defensive manner, folk will pick this up in your countenance and will either respond accordingly or ignore you. In my case normally I wouldn't bother answering.

There are many things that PAV have grasped very well, blessing you also in your anonymity, if you feel you need it, then of course it is yours by rights and you retain it, we respect that.

Alec

 

Someone who is currently not a Moderator on here would indeed love it if the pair of you could resort to airing your disagreements and grievances with each other in Private.

Thank you.

 

Dear Martin,

Lovely email, thank you for your professionalism. PAV care, that is all I know and all I see and want to see.

All of the professional men from the organiation only wish to see those less well off assisted, as opposed to simply spending their wealth or time in more selfish pursuits.

It was good to read the words of a deeper thinking man such as yourself sir. It is always better to give than receive and you should be congratulated on those things you do for others also.

Maybe one day, different preservation groups will find new avenues. Projects which ally to whole communities, as opposed to simply hobby organisations, although this is not in itself wrong. It all could work so much better surely when our hobbies are expanded more altruistically and inclusively with others. More folk would see railways and maritime hereitage for example as part of their lives, as it would add so many more advantages to them and these lives, which is what is happening in the Vale of Berkeley.

Can anyone see the area where PAV is quite bravely attempting to go, as opposed to simply just giving them an undeserved bashing?

Again thanks Martin, you are on the ball

Your friend Alec

 

Good on you Bristolian.You are right

Alec