35028 Guildford Circular 21st January 2011

One of the pullmans had a wheelflat so needed to be cut out before the train could continue - its unfortunate but what else were they to do?

 

Continue? It went back to London. How many hours does it take to remove a coach? <BJ>

 

Who knows, it depends on the amount of shunting required, whether the staff are available, other freight and passenger movements around the station area etc. Plus, if it has to be done in the yard it could also require the passengers to be taken off. With the knock-on effect on the rest of the trip and the need to take some passengers back by coach anyway, this seems like a perfectly sensible decision by VSOE.

Chris

 

Very kind, thank you

 

Could it be the wheel flats that you can hear in my video clip at about 2m35s ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSXhG5Wf750

 

We'll see if we can get an RTC stewardess to come and mop your brow!!!!!

 

I have received further information regarding the VSOE trip to Bath. The train was stopped en route at Pangbourne (11:25). It was then allowed to proceed to Didcot where the offending coach was removed. Instead of continuing to Bath, the train was terminated. At 14:31 the train and it's happy group of customers returned to London all eager to book for another £300 day trip to Didcot yard. <BJ>

 

What more could the punters ask for. Champagne and a trip to the GW Society. Beats Bath anyday!

Seriously though, what was the actual problem? Surely wheels flats would not on its own, be the reason for detaching the coach and terminating the tour. Yes, flats can be noisy and annoying with the constant banging but surely not unsafe?

I suspect there might have been a more serious problem that we are unaware of.

I remember a few years ago when travelling on Steam Dreams tours, a couple of the coaches in the green set, had flats and by the end of the tour, it was enough to drive you mad and you were happy to get off. What causes flats? Is it the train being dragged when the brakes are hard on? In which case why just the odd coach and not the whole set? How are flats repaired?

A mystery for me that someone is sure to clear up!

 

Presumably flats are caused by the wheel locking or an inclusion causing a breakdown at a particular spot. If there is sufficient material the wheel is re-profiled on a wheel lathe, both wheels having to be the same diameter. Where a flat occurs the steel is extremely hard due to heat generated by the flat. It plays havoc with the very expensive carbide cutting tools. Hope this helps..........

 

Is it really surprising that a bad enough wheelflat can cause a vehicle to be stopped mid-journey? As has been said, you can hear what its doing to the rails; obviously this has safety implications, encouraging broken rails etc but most that occur through normal service arent bad enough to even warrant a speed restriction - in this case though it might be a mechanical issue with the vehicle's running gear thats caused it.

Chris

 

If it passed through a wheel flats detector and set it off then the vehicle has to be removed from service as soon as possible.

Regards,

Dan

 

A "wheel flats detector". What on earth is that. As an ex signalman, hot box detectors were commonplace but I have never heard of a "wheel flats" detector before! At what intervals are they installed on the network. What triggers it? If it is the level of "bump bump" then the Steam Dreams tours to which I referred to earlier, would have not got beyond Clapham Junction on any of their tours out of London!That was true "bump bump".

I really do not buy this. Sorry. But I am prepared to be proved wrong of course.

For me it is a mystery and to other too, clearly!

 

http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/weighing/amtab/amtab4.html

All is revealed. <BJ>

 

I've never heard of these either and I'm pretty sure I've never come across any rules regarding them in the book or Sectional Appendix.

 

I am not making it up:

http://www.railbusinessawards.com/uploads/files/Engineering%20Excellence%20-%20Gotcha.pdf

Regards,

Dan

 

Are they installed? Are they working? If so where? Could be a disaster if applied on the Orpington - Victoria service, all the Networkers operating would be failed and withdrawn within the first hour of their being operational.

 

From a report published as far back as 2000 and sadly days before the Hatfield disaster. <BJ>

Section 4.4 Increased Numbers of Wheel Flats and Out-of-Round Wheels.

''Railtrack understands the problems with wheel irregularities and intends to increase substantially the number of measurement sites to identify wheel irregularities.''

 

I need to report something positive(having let of steam elsewhere!)

35028 hauled the VSOE wonderfully on the 21st. My group of 4 in a coupe in Phoenix had a truly great day out. Really,really good. Colin Kerswell invited me on to the footplate at Shalford--cheers--in my best togs as well!!

I walked thru' most of the train + didn't detect any flats but(a big but) the wine was plentiful.

NO 67 shove after Battersea so a truly heavy haul.

Many diners WERE really interested in the history of the carriages and 35028 with an actor explaining a great deal about the restoration process.

A fantastic day out + worth every penny. Lets hope wheel problems dont recur.

RAY MASON

 

There's a post about this tour on wnxx which i hope might give a bit more background - this is perhaps the most relevant comment.

"Wheel flats can be detected either by observation, or by passing over WHEELCHEX or WILD equipment, or by causing problems to the infrastructure such as damaging axle counters...
...WHEELCHEX and WILD will give an impact loading in kN, and this will determine if the train can procede and if so at what speed."

Chris

 

I had a flick through the Sectional Appendix when I got in to the box this evening and found the part on WheelChexs (or Wheel Impact Load Device). The appendix gives a list of where they are installed on the route and instructions to signalman about what to do when they activate. There are various levels of alarms which result in a restriction of speed for the train to proceed at.

So apologies to the poster who brought these up, they do exist but the more familiar term for them is WheelChexs.