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6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011/2012

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by belle1, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. irwellsteam

    irwellsteam Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    what even went wrong with it in the 1st place?
     
  2. stan the man

    stan the man Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Then perhaps its down to Bressingham and those who restored the loco...... Either way the whole issue has hardly praised bressingham for boldly taking a step to do something with the loco, maybe it has all gone tits up but at least they tried.

    Stan
     
  3. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    If whats been said is true, going to Southall for its overhaul...

    Chris
     
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  4. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Well, like they say, the only way to end up with a million quid from owning a Football League club is to start out with ten million. Same may be true of steam locos. But in both cases, the owners may think it's worthwhile. Or they may not! :ballchain:
     
  5. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    well that is only one side of it its more a case of,
    1 no control on what expenditure was allowed on what, did all the funds earmarked on 6100 go to 6100?
    2 the owners had no control over the project once it was decided that the "restoration"would be done at Southall
    3 no 3rd hand inspection of the engine during reassembly if it was, it was by a blind man and his dog
    4 the owning trust did not confront the decision to remove the loco from their control at Bressingham and in effect give it to Mrrs ward and Kentington when they had people already working on it at Bressingham

    in effect they allowed a high profile person to dictate who and where their money was spent with no control over what it was spent on, what the standard of work was, and indeed if the project manager was up to the task

    At the time it was well known with in the preservation movement that taking 4472 as a guide , that there would be questions over the workmanship and project management at Southall , its all rather telling that the owner of the other 2 locos that were due to be restored at Southall has had them removed to another site where he must consider that he would be better protected from the kind of problems that have been found with 6100
     
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  6. 5067

    5067 Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    More is the pity that Bongo is no longer a poster on this forum. Though he had a habit of rubbing people up the wrong way so to speak, he was certainly someone who knew the time of day.
     
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  7. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    I agree totally with this. Bongo suffered some horrible attacks on this forum and it is notable that none of these people have ever come forward to apologise once he was proved to be correct!
     
  8. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    What startles me - as a relatively new poster here, reading back through both the Royal Scot threads - how misinformed the general posting was. Yet time and again, "Bongo" was three or four months ahead of everyone and correctly - through whatever means (frankly, most likely common sense and some inside information) - stating what would happen, and when.

    It was the confidence with which he wrote, which many interpreted as being obtuse to some extent, which put noses out of joint, and yet now with hindsight shows quite simply how much MUST have been wrong behind the scenes for all to go as was stated.

    Overall the facts of the matter that are known to the general enthusiast fraternity do not add up with the noted retorts from several members of Southall in this thread, and the original. That it was deemed fit for purpose, and has required further work - well, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the work on the locomotive was inadequate in the first place.

    The locomotive was purportedly fit for purpose when outshopped from Southall, yet missed all of its mainline dates for the next two years, whilst Crewe took the engine on board, and to date have continued its restoration from that point on.

    I have sympathy with Bressingham as it appears many of the decisions made on the engine were out of their control from the very start of the overhaul. The parallels with Flying Scotsman's overhaul cannot be missed, and people will join up the dots when they appear.

    We cannot simply ignore the fact that very similar problems cropped up in both overhauls - both 4472 and 6100 required extensive work on their driving wheels, front ends, and in the case of 6100, the cylinders and valve gear as well.

    That said, the differing fortunes of the two engines to date is notable. That we are talking about Flying Scotsman returning to steam, sooner, rather than later, and no date (as far as I'm aware) set for Royal Scot's return is somewhat telling as to the true depth of the work required at Crewe.
     
  9. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    if i am honest Bressingham are the losers in this , the cost financially and to their good name will probally never be repaid plus they have now lost the engine to boot!! .
    Bressingham managed to do a full restoration on their Terrier within budget so they had the skills to do 6100 in house so questions have to be asked as to why was 6100 was moved once it had been started

    Bongo was very much on the mark, now with hind site it would seem that that he did know what was going on, dispite attempts from others on here to silence him , in mess rooms up and down the country it was known that this engine, and 4472 before it had problems stemming from work done at Southall , and that it was a common held stance that things were not being done right and that 4472 was passing FTR'S when other examiners might have not , mostly because it was 4472 and presure could be applied from above to allow her to run with known problems untill the problems became to noticable and the engine had to be stopped , it was about this time she was sold anyone remember the first run in NRM'S ownership, when it was unable to run,
     
  10. 5067

    5067 Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/features/is_scotsman_running_out_of_steam_1_2332676

    A very interesting article, and well worth a read. Although it goes back to 2009, it covers a few problems they (NRM) found when first dealing with 4472. Below is a snippet from the article:

     
  11. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Frankly, this excerpt from the same article alarms me more:

     
  12. bongo jim

    bongo jim New Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Whilst people seem quick to jump on all the problems created at Southall, what about the fact that more than one person supposedly examined this engine on several occasions at more than one different railway/ workshop and deemed it fit for operation on a preserved railway when it was [according to this forum] quite clearly not! And what damage did this cause that might not have been there if other things had been picked up?
    And to add this, should questions not be asked as to why it has now taken longer to sort out all of these supposed problems than it had taken to completely rebuild it classmate elsewhere, which probably required a far more extensive rebuild?
     
  13. shedbasher

    shedbasher Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Thiis is all very interesting but can anyone tell me what progress is bieng made up to now at Crewe please
     
  14. knightoftheblackeagle

    knightoftheblackeagle New Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    i would like to read myself like 'shedbasher' how the progress is going on locos undergoing restoration not about arguments i want progress reports.cant the arguments be moved elsewhere under different heading.this has annoyed me for some while now,you look to read on the progress on some loco and what you see has nothing to do on its progess!!!!!!!?????
     
  15. Mighty Mogul

    Mighty Mogul Well-Known Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    But in some instances a restoration/overhaul can stall due to political differences and disputes between those parties involved. Although it is a sad state of affairs when politics directly inhibit the progress being made on a loco, I think it is perfectly reasonable to be aware of these happenings so that an understanding of why progress isn't evident can be made.
     
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  16. shedbasher

    shedbasher Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    im sure by now with all these comments we are well aware of the political situation lets get down to what is happening to the locomotive please
     
  17. stan the man

    stan the man Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Now "Brittania" is virtually finished I dare say attention will now turn to 6100.

    Im sure when there is some news we will hear about about.

    Stan
     
  18. irwellsteam

    irwellsteam Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Agreed. Can all this sniping at Southall can now cease, please, and return to topic as no one has actually said what went wrong with 6100 in the first place.
     
  19. keith6233

    keith6233 Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    I think the apparent slow progress is they are waiting parts ,a back cylinder cover for one .
     
  20. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Thats what i orignally asked about a few dozen posts back, will it plain & simple make its main line debut for RTC's summer tours this year? not a load of sniping

    Neil
     

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