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New Build Claud Hamilton

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Lady Hamilton 8783, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. shedbasher

    shedbasher Member

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    nice pic dace .They were used on Oxford to Cambridge trains I was often hauled by one .I love 4-4-0s as 15d had several I was brung up with them .I hope they do get it going and as the Midland comnpound doesnt look as it will ever be steamed again . I donate to the Patriot project and if I get spare cash ( mmm) I will support C/hamilton ."The Claud Clause ".How about that for the project name
     
  2. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Yes we do have to be practical or else, assuming that any particular machine does get completed, it won't earn enough money to get it past the first ten year boiler overhaul and all the effort will be wasted.

    I did not suggest in any way that only the four machines cited should be replicated but merely that various arguments could be made in their favour on practical grounds. We need to get a grip on things in general and on costs in particular or the non-enthusiast public, will not be there to subsidise our interest. As an example of the latter may I cite a colleague who was annoyed to put it mildly that a certain railway charged five of her family a total of £100 for a very short Santa train journey which she considered exceedingly poor value for money. The pre-Christmas snows demonstrated just how over-reliant on Santa trains some lines have become.

    So no small sized high wheeled engines that won't earn their keep please!

    P.H.
     
  3. al4466

    al4466 New Member

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    QUOTE :Maybe I've misunderstood what you're saying, but are you suggesting that they build 2 different boilers?

    not so much two different boilers as 2 different locos would be my vote. one as built one rebuilt. so one could represent the later years of the class as i have never seen one as i am to young to even remember steam. As for power isnt Bethnal Green bank a test? For start stop operation they dealt with the liverpool street stopping trains in later years they only lost the expresses due to the B12 coming along.
     
  4. Black Jim

    Black Jim Member

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    Blimey mate, where's yer sense of adventure! If you were in charge of everything, it would be a dull world indeed!
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I think what was being suggested is build an LNE round topped boiler but also have a second set of cladding in the shape of a belpaire to give it an as built look. It was suggested this be done with the N7 many years ago.

    Any project like this has to be practical, that's amust. A small loco is going to get little work on the main line but the large wheels will not preclude its use on heritage railways. Large wheels may give it the ability to run at a speed but don't prevent it running at 25mph. All steam locos can run at slow speed with no problem; if they couldn't they wouldn't be able to start. Small wheels aren't a requisite for slow running ( although economy wouldn't be great); bigger wheels are a requisite for fast running as steam engine's tend to choke themselves much above 400 rpm.
     
  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Adventure does not preclude judgement. Both Amundsen and Scott were adventurous but Amundsen made it back!!

    P.H.
     
  7. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Yes it is a dull world, thats why we are on here perhaps. Not Knocking this idea as its difficult not to want to see something as lovely built, ( and theres a cracking model of one in the NRM'S 'brick a brack' area), and they have a lot of older beautiful engines sat there that one would love to see steamed, the reasons they arent being is either that 1) to do so would mean compromising their condition as artifacts. 2) It would cost money that could not be recouped on the Mainline ( not enough power to pull a paying train) or on preserved railways.
    so unless your claud hamilton disguises a Porta gas producer sytem and some traction enhancements that let it pull 9 bogies plus a skip under its elegant exterior its only future is as a rich mans toy...
     
  8. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Sorry at what point did anyone say that it has to recoup money? Are not most if not all things done in preservation for fun/the sake of it/recreating a bit of the past etc. Should the would be creators of the Claud Hamilton succeed, its unlikely that they will then decide that their creation owes them x millions. Sure it would be good if it raised enough to pay for its next overhaul, but its no less likely than Morayshire, 30120 etc to do so. All in my own humble Sunday morning opinion of course.
     
  9. shedbasher

    shedbasher Member

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    well thats depressed me for the rest of the day
     
  10. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    Don't tell me the name plate has been cast and added to the fabricated cab side sheet and pair of 08 buffers. Another container load of bits....

    Where is the mini fleet of B17s hiding these days?
     
  11. Stewie Griffin

    Stewie Griffin Member

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    It must be practical yes, but it doesn't necessarily have to make business sense to build a particular loco; the vast majority of the things that we do in railway preservation make no real business sense. Once you have to start factoring in volunteer labour you lose any semblance of an argument on that point. If strict business sense was followed, we wouldn't have anywhere approaching the number of railways we do, if any, and we certainly wouldn't be running a variety of superannuated steam locomotives.

    The key question to me is 'is there the will and the ability to see it built'. Only time will tell on that point, but it will certainly require sufficient people with fairly significant amounts of money (not as easy as it sounds in this day and age) and sufficient people prepared to put the effort in to build it (and by that I mean in whatever capacity, be it skilled, manual or even administrative). I have on occasions been quite scathing about some schemes that don't have a cat in hell's chance of satisfying one, let alone both of those points, but they really must be considered before any real progress will be made.
     
  12. Black Jim

    Black Jim Member

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    Hear, hear. If everyone previously in the preservation scene had thought about it & started analyzing everything , we'd have NOTHING now!!
     
  13. Chris A

    Chris A New Member

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    Just for those who dont think these engines were powerful or had a tendancy for slippage (yes i know all about more wheels = more grip) i will give you a link to a picture http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/5496184288/ and put to you, if they had all these problems, why did they pull royal trains, become the fastest locomotives in the world (for a time) and were the fastest GER express locomotives to be built?

    Just for the record I count over 30 4 wheel wagons so thats a 60+ axle load on its draw bar!
     
  14. George A

    George A New Member

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    The only reason they went onto branchlines etc in the later days was because B12s took their place, shame as it that the superheated Clauds never had the chance to demonstrate improved performances.

    But i think these locos would be useful for heritage railways, for those talking about mainline, where does it say on the claud groups website about wanting to mainline it?
     
  15. Chris A

    Chris A New Member

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    Oh and no we dont have any parts for the loco (cab mock ups, nameplates or otherwise) and we do not plan to make anything until we are ready and sure that this project will work. Research and patience is just as key as enthusiasm to getting an engine built, not making bits then finding out you dont have the will or capital to finish it.
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Obviously there is a grain of truth here but not, dare I say, a great deal more. We can all have our romantic dreams but just because I like the look of a Brighton I3 and admire the success of this type in its day does not blind me to the fact that it would not serve a heritage railway as well as a Class 4 2-6-4T. Similarly a Class 8 will put greater strain on elderly bullhead rails than a Class 2.

    One manager, now long dead, of a tourist railway who faced the problem of dividing scarce resources between motive power, civil engineering and the requirements of the paying public for reasonable rolling stock would refer sardonically to "the idiot gricers". A hard judgement perhaps but again not without a grain of truth in it.

    PH
     
  17. Chris A

    Chris A New Member

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    Please be helpful or constructive. Talking about other locomotives and santa trains and what railways do is not related to our planned new build of a Claud Hamilton, kindly post about these things elsewhere!. Further more how/where we intend to use it is up to us when it is nearing completion and since this has not got off the ground yet (it is still only a proposal) please do not ask questions like "do we have any parts made" and "where can we see it"
     
  18. TimtheTTI

    TimtheTTI New Member

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    I don't suppose any of those non-believers out there have bothered to look at the wheel arrangement of 3717 "City of Truro" have they, it too is a 4-4-0, and is mighty powerful, plus the Claud will have more grip than that, plus, where on the website does it say we plan to mainline it????
    If they haven't said something, it's because they don't intend to do it!!!!
     
  19. Coboman

    Coboman Member

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    I wouldn't worry too much about the nay sayers on here, remember the remarks the A1 trust got when they announced they were building an A1? I wonder where those people who confidently predicted it was pie in the sky are now?
    I sincerely hope you do get enough funding and interest to go ahead with this project, a D16 would be a fabulous loco to see in the flesh, but don't be too down hearted if you don't.
     
  20. TimtheTTI

    TimtheTTI New Member

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    thanks very much Coboman for your kind words, i too hope this goes ahead, as it would look great, especially as it is going to be one of two locos allocated to royal duties, and was wrecked in an accident, it would be absolutely amazing to see it re-born.
     

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