THE GREAT BRITAIN IV

What about 'beyond reasonable doubt'? How can a charge of guilty be applied if there is doubt (even a small amount) of whether the loco actually started the fire?

Circumstantial evidence is exactly that...

 

As I have just moved away from that area, I wasn't able to nip down the road to my usual spot at or near Offord Crossing. However, one of my ex neighbours did :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/train-pix/5635770903/in/photostream

 

The fireman said, he saw the fire before the locos arrived. Well he would say that wouldn't he! Get the bones out of that!
Yes, Wick an area was tinder dry and often locos have started small line side fires but only one?
Although around the area we were not near the fire.
We did buy the newspaper with the report and just hope it can be proved the engines were not responsible, but the RSPB has a high profile.
Can you help?
Has anyone got film, photos of the area just before the locos arrived which could help proved evidence of someone else setting the fire

 

Hi Craig. Good point! However, having spent many hours in the crown courts including the Old Bailey (public galleries I would add!!), I have witnessed many juries convict on the basis of circumstantial evidence.

Many years ago a steam tour down south was blamed for starting a serious lineside fire but witnesses on the train saw young kids messing around on the lineside and a small fire had already started. No doubt, in this case, that the jury would be obliged to render a verdict of NOT guilty. Doesn;t look like the same can be said of the Scotland incident!

But the "jury is out"!!!

 

May I just point out that any action from this incident would be heard in a Civil Court, not a Criminal one (damage such as this being a Tort not a Crime) and in the Civil Courts the burden of proof changes from 'Beyond reasonable doubt' to 'The balance of probability'.

 

Indeed you are right. At the end of the day, one hopes that all this banter is just that; banter! One hopes that it will all fizzle out and the Great Britain can get on with it primary role of conveying enthusiasts around the UK behind famous steam engines with efficient spark arrestors.

On the other hand, I don't think we can simply dismiss the fact that an awful amount of damage has been done to the scottish countryside. It had to start somehow; maybe a cigarette, maybe sparks from a barequeue or a spark from a steam loco.

The only way this will turn up in the Civil Counts is if the land owners feel that "on the balance of probability", the steam train caused this calamitous damage to the land.

Let's hope it doesn't get to that.

 

Scotland does have its own legal system. The jury could return a not proven verdict.

 

In my experience of fires started by steam engines in the fifties the fire started well after the train had passed, and there did'nt seem from memory all this hullabaloo about it.........................maybe a sign of the times alas.....

 

Any news of the train today?

 

Agreed Bryan, any news/photo's or footage of the train since Monday?

 

Tour basically ran to time today whenever I saw it. Thanks to the earlier comments about my photos at the weekend. Here are two from today :


The Great Britain IV - Day 5 - Dunkeld Bank by JonathonAG, on Flickr
No. 45407 and 44871 tackle the 1 in 80 Dunkeld Bank


The Great Britain IV - Day 5 - Forteviet by JonathonAG, on Flickr
No. 45407 and 44871 race along the stretch out from Forteviet

 

The Rilley Whiskey Chaser (im sure someone will post a picture, I can't from my phone) arrived at Glasgow slightly late. The last 2 days have more or less been as planned. 61994 was about 20 late into Kyle yesterday, climb from Gare took a while! Otherwise nothing to report other than a good pic of 46115 in the express today. Andrew

 

Pictures - you want pictures - We've got plenty of pictures

http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk231/45596/

I did try asking if that was "the" silly headboard but he wouldn't talk to me!

 

Lineside fire reported near Cumbernauld causing big disruptions BBC news 11am........

 

oops............ Well sounds like its running today anyway! Hoping to see it near Shap, hopefully steam and no diesel! hwell:

EDIT: BBC News now says this was a fire in an industrial building http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-13153920

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-13153920
It was an industrial shed and no mention in the report of steam locos passing by so I bet the GB IV wasn't involved, particularly as it wasn't routed that way in the first place.

 

Not routed that way but everything backs up.........45407 & 44871 may be affected in le move to Grosmont

 

46115 running just a few minutes down between Carlisle and Penrith. Being worked very lightly for obvious reasons.

 

Two shots on Nunney Castle heading up to carnforth for the tour
http://www.northwestrailphoto.co.uk...?album=lastup&cat=0&pid=501#top_display_media
http://www.northwestrailphoto.co.uk...?album=lastup&cat=0&pid=502#top_display_media