Lost LNWR Crane

Hi guys
Long time since I posted here!
I'm trying to track down a LNWR Crane & Runner that Chris Moxom informed me has left the Churnet Valley to an unknown location.

http://www.uklocos.com/preservedrailwaystocklist/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=7930
http://www.uklocos.com/preservedrailwaystocklist/final-results.asp?action=display&Id=7942

Any confirmation of their new home appreciated.
Were these once owned by the NRM?

Cheers
Steve

 

After this post was reported on the Breakdown Crane Association forum (website www.bdca.org.uk) we have made enquiries, and sadly the news is not good - the crane was scrapped in April 2011.

This crane was of huge historical inportance being not only one of the the three oldest in the country (the other two being the Craven Bros crane at the NRM and the Ransomes & Rapier crane at the East Somerset Railway, all dating from c.1908) but also the only survivor in the UK of the the classic early Cowans Sheldon design, once numerous in 15- and 20-ton forms. The Cowans design, together with the very similar Cravens design, were rendered obsolescent almost overnight when the Ransomes design of 1908 was built.

The 1908 LNWR 30-ton crane’s history in preservation was an interesting one. It was claimed for the National Collection direct from BR and stored at Preston Park until 1978, when it moved to Steamtown at Carnforth and remained there until Steamtown closed as a visitor centre. According to records at the NRM, the unusual LNWR match truck was one of the principal reasons it was claimed in the first place and this was fully restored at Carnforth in 1993. records at the NRM also show that there was a suggestion at about that time that if both the LNWR crane and the Cravens crane already at the NRM were restored together then demonstrations of railway cranes working together could be effected, although costs and logistics of this ambitious idea were never looked into.

When Carnforth closed as a visitor centre the crane was transferred as an National Collection asset on loan to the Churnet Valley Railway, a registered museum. In 2004 the NRM decided that having two steam breakdown cranes in the National Collection was a duplication that was not affordable and the LNWR crane was de-accessioned through the NRM’s disposal policy, and offered to the Churnet Valley Railway on condition it was maintained in fair condition and made accessible to the public if they showed an interest in it. The Churnet Valley Railway, which had ambitious plans for a new Engineering and Heritage Centre and for the expansion of the line to Stoke and to Alton Towers were delighted to accept it.

In the period from the transfer of title various changes and event took place at the CVR which reduced the interest in the crane. Stored (dumped) out of use, out of sight, and out of mind, the crane suffered the attentions of scrap metal thieves on more than one occasion. Eventually the CVR decided to dispose of the crane, and in April 2011 it was scrapped.

This is an appalling loss to the railway heritage of the country, and personally I feel that it is both shocking and shameful that is has happened.

 

Before anyone comes on here condemning the NRM, please note that this occurred AFTER the crane left NRM ownership.

 

A very good point which should be very clearly understood - it was not the NRM who did this, the crane was de-accessioned in 2004 and legally belonged to the CVR.

I must apologise for the typo (now corrected) in my post above, in which I mistyped the year in which the crane was scrapped - it was cut in April 2011 long after it ceased to be an NRM asset. The NRM had absolutely no part in this tragic event, and (I suspect) are probably as thrilled about it as the rest of us.

I apologise my poor typing ability has caused any problems and thank the person who very rapidly pointed out my error.

 

This is an example of how some decision making persons who exist in preservation but have little interest in it can by all too quick and to say "scrap that its rubbish" just because they either dont know what it is or its value inheritage terms and merely because they dont have an interest in such items to even bother to find out.
I always think "Scrap" should be a last resrot with rolling stock, after attempting to sell something, but that would be ideal and preservation rarely is.

 

You did read the posts right?

 

Many vehicles have still survived to this date due this forum (and others)...

Anyone disposing of an asset should consider forums like this as an option...one persons trash is another persons treasure... this could have been one.
I understand just recently some LNWR coaches now have a future thanks to internet forums.

 

Hi Guys
Just noticed there's been several replies to my original post. I did actually find out a few days ago the sad fate of this crane.
I was told the CVR did offer the crane to several other lines & individuals but nobody showed an interest. I will say if this is true, saving the crane would have had more options than the CVR just simply scrapping it. As stated in the first reply it had seen substantial attention from metal thieves who are probably more to blame than anyone else for its demise & lack of interest from other parties.

Steve

 

I have heard today, that as of last week, the Crane & Runner have not been scrapped, but have been purchased by a scrap dealer, James Watson of Stafford & are currently lying in a transport hauliers yard. The crane & runner are allegedly available for sale via Watsons.

 

STOP PRESS

The Crane is currently in Reed's yard in Stoke, is available for sale for over £15k if not sold quite quickly, it will be scrapped.
There have been a couple of enquiries.
Scrap prices are still going up

 

Do you have an address or contact for Reed's in Stoke? I can't find it by googling.

I can find a J Watson in Stafford, but who should actually be contacted about the crane?

 

That is excellent news, 3155! We railway preservationists and enthusiasts must do all we can to rescue this unique and historically important artefact and, in due course, actively preserve it for the benefit of those who will follow us.

 

Contact Reeds Direct on 01782 599581, I have spoken to them today.

Good Luck

Dave W

 

It is Reid Freight Services

 

This is great news!

 

For info, I have spoken to David Reid about the crane. It is currently in his yard, although it is not owned by him (having been bought by a metal recycler who is a good friend). David has prevailed upon the owner that it is too important to scrap immediately (which is the only reason why it still exists) but the stay of execution is only temporary.

There are various moves afoot now to try to save this crane but ultimately they will require that it is bought from the present owner, and that will either require an individual/organisation who can afford to buy it outright, or an appeal.

 

An interesting change in fortune for the crane..... maybe!

As a working volunteer at the CVR (I had no dealings at all with the crane), I agree that scrapping historic vehicles should be the last option. If there are the willing dedicated volunteers, LOTS of cash and many thousands of hours to plough into a project such as this then all well and good. Such a restoration project requires a dedicated enhusiastic team/group, as to get it working again will require MANY thousands of pounds spending on the boiler alone.

None of this was available at the CVR, nor it would seem at other locations offered the crane, so it was disposed of.

Hopefully it has a secure future ahead of it... but please be aware of what you are taking on!

 

Hello M53494.

Surely the future existence of a railway vehicle of immense historical importance shouldn't depend upon whether or not it can economically be brought into working order? A great many historical locos and other items of rolling stock aren't in condition for running but are treasured nevertheless. Scrapping a nationally important artifact isn't justifiable under any circumstances.

Turning to another point in your post (regarding the claim that other organisations received an offer of the crane and turned it down) it seems very strange indeed that not a single member of the Breakdown Crane Association appears to have heard even so much as a whisper of the crane being made available for transfer.

Was the CVR particularly and suddenly hard up for the space, or was the decision to scrap this 58-ton crane influenced by the currently elevated scrap metal prices?

 

I have to echo David's sentiments. How many locos in the National Collection will never steam again? Most of them! Does that make them any the less interesting or worthy of preservation? Of course not!

Should we scrap "Agenoria" or "Rocket" because they will never steam again? Of course not!

MP21 still has a future even if only as a static exhibit. It may well be restorable anyway - preservation is full of stories of the "unrestorable" being restored, provided that there is a will, the interest, and the funding (and yes, I know better than most the costs of restoring a steam breakdown crane).

I can remember seeing MP21 working and in steam at Carnforth in (I think) the early 1980s, and I know that when it first went to the CVR it was complete and eminently restorable. If now it has passed the point of no return due to natural decay, loss of parts, and the ministrations of metal thieves, then who is actually responsible, who was negligent in their duty of care towards an artefact of national importance?

I have no wish to engage in "blamestorming" since ultimately it does nothing to resolve the situation, but it is at present hard to see how the CVR can emerge from this with credit (except perhaps by buying it back from the metal recycler and starting the disposals process again, but properly this time). Some measure of redemption might be possble if the minutes of the meetings at which the decision to dispose of the crane in this way was discussed (both internally and with the NRM) we made available, together with a list of the railways and individuals to whom the crane was offered. Until this happens, sadly I think it will be inevitable that there will be those who question whether this disposal was carried out in accordance with the disposals policies which a registered museum is required to follow.

Perhaps if anyone from the CVR management team is reading this they could put the record straight?

 

Perhaps one of the reasons to dispose was to discourage the crime that has been on the rise in the quieter parts of the CVR over the last 5 years? For those who believe those at the CVR do not care about vehicles and would rather scrap than sell on, consider the two Mk1 suburban vehicles which were in the same situation and have happily been re-homed at the North Norfolk Railway where they will hopefully form a fine train in the not-to-distant future.