Lost LNWR Crane

I suppose the same argument could be applied to most of the locomotives which are on static display throughout the country, including nearly all of the National Collection. Why spend so much money, time and effort preserving and conserving them?

Possibly this is because there are relatively few of them and it is an area where certainly until recently there has been little published information. A better approach is to make them more interesting to enthusiasts and public alike with improved display and interpretation. This, in fact, is one of the reasons why, when we established the BDCA, we decided to make so much information on the website accessible to non-members.

It is a mystery to me why there have been more books published on the subject of railway telegraph pole insulators (surely an obscure specialist subject if ever there was one) than railway breakdown cranes, which have only been the subject of one serious volume in the last one hundred and fifty years! (NB there will soon be a new two volume master-work coming out on the subject written by one of the country's leading railway authors, so things are looking up at last).

Speaking as one heavily involved in the operation of steam breakdown cranes on heritage railways, I can say without any hesitation that a working steam crane attracts a huge level of interest from visitors, although undoubtedly the "average" visitor knows even less about them than he/she does about steam locos.

It is also the case still that an operational steam breakdown crane can be operated economically and legally, and pay its way on a heritage railway. H&S and legislation has made this a little more complex than it was in the old days, but it is still a feasible option. Given than MP21 has been out of use for a much shorter time than many of the locos restored from Barry scrapyard, and has not been as badly robbed out, there is no doubt that it would be possible to restore it to working order if the funds and the determination were availble. However its cultural and historical value is such that even if restoration to working order is not contemplated, it should be saved as a static exhibit.

 

A very commendable offer!

Most you following this thread will be now probably have seen the article in the latest Heritage Railway magazine, which reports recent events in a very thorough and balanced way. There are some very interesting quotes from the head of the NRM in the article, and it becomes clear that the NRM is expecting the CVR to take steps to ensure the long term well-being of the crane. However, I am not sure what, if anything, the CVR is now doing about it, and I doubt realistically if there is anything that the NRM (or anyone else) can do to force them to do anything.

It may still well turn out that the only way to save the crane is for an individual or group to buy it. I have contacted one or two individuals I know who probably have the means and possibly the interest to buy it, but as yet I don't think that anyone has. I think that the crux of the matter as far as buying is the that fact that in the beginning, in BR days, it belonged to us, the taxpayers of Britain. It was then taken into the National Collection, where it still belonged to us. The NRM then de-accessioned it and gave it free of charge to the CVR on condition that our interests, ie the interests of the taxpayers who until then owned it, were protected. The CVR has now sold the crane when it was in fact obliged to offer it free of charge to a suitable institution or individual first. No-one is likely to be too eager to come up with the cash at the moment if there is the slightest possibility that the CVR is at all likely to do the right thing and buy it back, then offer it free of charge to a new home.

If if does come top pass that the crane has to be bought by someone else, then it is quite likely that an appeal will become necessary. This would raise all sorts of issues (such as who would actually buy and own the crane, and be responsible for its welfare, and where could it be kept and displayed) which would need to be resolved pretty quickly. At this time, I personally feel that to make donations would be premature, but to make up your mind if this is a cause you could support, and to decide how much you might be prepared to donate, would definitely not be premature.

If it looks as though a public appeal is the way to proceed, I suggest that pledging donations would be the first step, since this would enable the appeal organiser to determine if the appeal is likely to be successful before incurring the cost and complexity of actually receiving donations (which would have to be returned if the appeal was unsuccessful).

What would be really, really useful at the moment is to find out what, if anything, the CVR is doing about this now. I suspect that if I ask I will get nowhere, but someone in this forum must surely be able to find out? Do we have any members of the CVR management team here, or members of the CVR who could provide and update?

 

Speaking from my position, I think it best not to speculate or judge any more on the forum, but await the outcome of events. I am aware of potential interest in the crane, and interested parties have been advised to contact the CVR. Let us see what transpires.

 

That's from your position. I was told to lay off a week ago or "put my money where my mouth is". Well I laid off for a week but time move son and one thing we can actively do is apply pressure on the CVR to do the decent thing. They can't both expect to raise money via a share offer and go selling heritage assets entrusted to them for scrap. If they want to move forward they need to sort their act out. Fast. This weekend?

Bear in mind that at the head of this section is a stock for sale. One entry in there or one add in a mag and they would have a leg to stand on.

 

I'm not saying to lay off at all, and I think that the CVR are very aware of the issue. Just was trying to say that there is only so much that can be said publicly, and I feel that we're at that point - and a positive outcome looks quite likely.

 

Seems to me that somebody/people have been very naughty indeed. I'll for sure bear that in mind in the future.

 

A sad situation, to which I hope there is a happy ending. I wish you well with trying to save this crane.

However I can't help thinking that if it was such an important artefact deserving of safeguarding for the future, then how come the NRM chose to keep their other crane and not this one? And then, after it left the National Collection, why would something 'so important' be left to rot and be robbed in the open air for many years with folk showing no interest in it until it's sat awaiting a man with a gas axe? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but wouldn't it have been better if those showing concerns for the crane (and the CVR's decisions to dispose of it), had got involved with the vehicle a few years back when it was in better condition?

Aside from the clear point of principal that the CVR have disposed of the crane outwith of the terms that they were donated it, vehicles such as cranes, historic though they may be, unfortunately fail to attract anywhere near the level of interest (and that means £££ and man hours of effort) that a locomotive or passenger coach does. The harsh driving factor is therefore what practical value they offer the heritage line giving them a home.

Things that take up much-pressed siding space are often challenged as to why they should be retained, no matter how historic they may be viewed by some. Storage charges for covered space off heritage lines is expensive and eats up precious and limited funds, especially if it's undercover. This isn't the first historic vehicle to suffer this kind of fate and I sadly doubt it will be the last. The LMS Class 502 EMU comes to mind: http://www.class502.org.uk/history/ - and I believe this is still a member of the National Collection!

 

This is actually an interesting question (well, two interesting questions), since in context of the development and history of breakdown cranes in this country (and for the era in question also the world) the Cowans Sheldon crane MP21 is more important than the Craven Brothers crane CME13 still in the NRM. It would indeed be interesting to know how the decision which to keep was made; I suspect on the grounds of condition or cost. I am fairly sure that no-one at the NRM at the time the decision to de-accession MP21 really knows enough about breakdown cranes to make the decision on contextual grounds (if our learned contributor from the NRM can shed any further light on this it would be interesting to hear).

However let us not forget that, irrespective of which of these two is the most important, we have a fascinating and unique legacy at present since there is one crane from each of the three most influential crane makers in the Empire which are all contemporaneous, in the form of the two above plus the Ransomes and Rapier crane No 2. This trio has a cumulative cultural value far in excess of the sum if its constituents.

Indeed, hindsight is wonderful. However I can say with some certainty that there are some of us who would have got involved in this crane much earlier had we actually known how serious was its plight. It was in fact our growing concern for the safety of this crane which led to enquiries being made at the NRM as to its ownership late last year, and once we had learned that it was actually the property of the CVR an approach being made to the CVR this year to find out its status. It is unfortunate that the approach to the CVR was made a month or so after it had been sold, and although the approach to the NRM was made well before it was sold, no-one at the NRM at that time knew that the crane was in the process of being sold. If only proper consultation had taken place, we could probably have nipped this in the bud.

You are absolutely right, and there is no doubt that whatever the outcome for MP21 there will continue to be tragic losses in the future. Ultimately the decision comes down to economics and if there isn't a way (enough interest) to make an artefact pay its way, be it operational or static, as an individual item or as part of a collection, then probably it is doomed. Cranes are in an odd situation, since they as an important part of our railway culture and heritage but one which has been mysteriously overlooked on the whole, but one which is of no less value for that. There are approximately 30 preserved or extant breakdown cranes in the country (out of a total of around 500) and at present they are being scrapped at a rate of about two per year. Amongst the last three to be scrapped was another crane of significant historic value, the Southern Railway's crane 1560S.

This was the first of the cranes built by Ransomes & Rapier on Government account as an air raid precaution in the immediate run-up to WW2, and as such it was the first crane of the definitive design of 45-ton crane, on four axles with Stokes patent relieving bogies, the design which R&R then adopted as standard for that size until the end of steam crane manufacture. This particular crane was extensively used by the military during the dark days of WW2 prior to D-Day and erected and supported the coastal artillery in the Dover area including the famous batteries "Winnie" and "Pooh". After the war it went back into normal service and eventually with its sister crane 1561S became the last pair of steam breakdown cranes in service with BR. A more interesting history than most, and one which to many people would merit its continued preservation (it was also in remarkably good condition having been in service with BR until the late 1980s and required relatively little work to put it back into full working order).

In 2010 it was sold for scrap, a victim of circumstance and the high price of scrap. It was privately owned, it had been for sale for quite a while with no buyer to be found, and the result was inevitable. It was a shame, but realistically the chances of saving that crane were very small, and to be honest there was little point trying, especially since there are eight similar cranes also preserved. It was only its history which made it unique. However thanks to the generosity and co-operation of the metal recycler who scrapped it, I was able to negotiate the acquisition of a significant number of parts to help keep at least four other cranes working.

So passionate as I am about cranes, I fully agree that we can't save them all, and we must be selective. There are probably a dozen or so surviving cranes in this country which really do deserve long term preservation in the national interest due to their heritage value, and MP21 is most definitely one of them, it is truly unique and very historic. It is worth making every effort to save, even if there is no chance of it acutally working again.

 

Thanks for the detailed and most interesting response Roger. I wish you well with your efforts to give MP21 a brighter future.

The headline figure of two breakdown cranes being scrapped a year is most concerning - does this figure also include the diesel-powered BR types like the ex-Laira Cowans Sheldon we have at Llangollen? This vehicle has been in the shed at Llangollen for some TLC this year and is a very useful asset. It took part in an EMRPS night photo charter a few years ago, where it looked superb behind a Dutch-liveried Class 37 No 37240 - a loco which has benefitted enormously from this crane as it was used to lift the loco to perform a bogie swap that was instrumental in getting her operational again!

 

... and which prior to conversion was the only oil-fired steam breakdown crane on BR, having been built as such for the War department in 1943.

 

The figure I quoted includes diesel hydraulic cranes but was based on the scrapping of cranes from "preservation" sites only and did not include those which were were scrapped without ever making it into preservation. If the latter are included, the figure goes up.

Working from memory (so there is scope for error), the losses since 2008 are as follows:-

Scrapped from preservation sites (including two former BR cranes scrapped in Ireland):-

- ADRC96706 (RS1092/75) - scrapped September 2010 ex Churnet Valley Railway
- ADRR95209 (DS1560) - scrapped April 2010 ex Tyseley (privately owned)
- RS1091/30 - scrapped 2010 ex Severn Valley
- RS1086/30 - scrapped August 2009 ex Inchicore
- RS1089/30 - scrapped August 2009 ex inchicore
- ADRC96101 - scrapped March 2008 ex Dean Forest Railway

Scrapped without ever making it into preservation:-

- ADRC96701 - scrapped April 2008 ex store BAD Kineton
- ADRC96702 - scrapped April 2008 ex store Old Oak Common
- ADRC96712 - scrapped May/June 2008 ex store York

The last of these (ADRC96712) was one of BR's last design of breakdown crane with the hydraulic telescopic jib.

High up the list on the "at risk" register at the moment, in addition of course to MP21, is ADRC96100 last reported stored OOU at Carnforth. This was one of the (largely unsuccessful) 30-ton cranes built by Cowan Sheldon in the 1960s but has the distinction of being the first ever diesel-mechanical breakdown crane to operate in the UK (and in fact the first breakdown crane powered other than by steam, hand cranes excluded). This makes it important and worthy of the shortlist for permanent preservation. I am not sure of its current status, and there are some disturbing rumours that it hasn't been seen for while, so if anyone reading this knows of its status please do let us know! Its sister, ADRC96101 was thought to be safe at the DFR until March 2008 when it was unexpectedly cut up.

 

Excellent information,.Thank you very much for lightening my ignorance of a subject I knew nothing of.

Mention of the Inchicore pair reminds me of the Crane plinthed at Mallow in Cork that I came across. Any info on that one? (Sorry , a bit off Topic)

 

Well I never, you learn something every day!

 

I think that that is the sole surviving Cowans Sheldon 15-tonner, the design of which eventually developed into MP21, the crane which is the subject of this thread, but I would need to see a picture to be sure.

UPDATE - WRONG ! The 15-tonner I was thinking of is apparently at the RPSI at Whitehead; the crane at Mallow is an ex-GSWR Cowans Sheldon crane of 1920. Sorry!

 

I am sure that by now most followers of this thread will have seen the thorough coverage given to this matter in the July "Heritage Railway" magazine. There is a follow-up in the August issue which quotes Steve Davies of the NRM saying that serious offers of a new home have been received from the Ribble Steam Railway and from the Crewe Heritage Centre.

Let us hope that something can be worked out, and the crane can move to one or other of these.

The article does make the point that the ease and speed with which two offers of good and appreciative homes have been made suggests that the CVR's original efforts to find a new home might have been somewhat half-hearted.

 

surely offering a home and paying for it are different things though.Any more details?

 

Perhaps Heritage Railway magazine and some of the people who have commented on this thread should be in full possession of the facts. If HR had bothered to contact the CVR they could have printed an altogether more factually correct article. Railway Magazine have made contact and therefore are in full possession of the facts.

The crane has been sold assisted by the CVR who negotiated the deal.

The party who have bought it will be issuing a press release in the next week. Perhaps the negativity surrounding the scrapping of this crane will cease when the new owners issue the press release and some important facts relating to its initial offering to new owners and subsequent sale are fully disclosed in the public arena.

For the record only ONE party has expressed an interest which was forwarded to the CVR. I am sure Anthony Coulls will kindly confirm this.

If at the time when the CVR looked at disposing of the crane some 18 months ago the BDCA were such a prominent organisation as they would appear to insinuate then I am sure that the NRM would have suggested contacting them, likewise I am sure Cowans would have suggested something similar.

Our contact at the NRM has been kept informed and is fully aware and delighted with the sale.

Gregory Wilson.

 

Tsk, now, you wouldn't expect HR to do some proper research, would you? Why bother when you can just crib something off the internet?

Regards,
A disgruntled illicitly-quoted former reader.