Ffestiniog t shirts and food overpriced?

Anyway - getting back to the real subject of this thread...

Economics - supply & demand etc. etc.

Items in the shop are sold to achieve a profit. Branded clothing is but one part of the product range available - and one that appeals to a limited market when compared to the broad customer base passing through the shops. Obviously if they weren't selling in sufficient quantities at the price stated, they would be sold at a lower price. The fact that the Shops Manager is doing a good job is reflected in the sales figures, which are well above budget again this year.

Catering prices are reasonable for the area, but can also be used as means of regulating demand. The kitchen facilities in Spooner's are rather limited and can struggle to cope at times. If prices are set too low, demand would exceed the ability to supply - the pricing regime in use ensures that the kitchen staff can provide the best service possible with their current facilities.

 

Back to the topic of the food in Spooners. My experience is that the price compares well with other local pubs and restuarants but the quality is, by a long way, inferior. This topic mirrors another on 'The Works' where I made a similar observation, I was challenged then to send an email with my comments to the Catering Manager via the person who made the challenge. This was done, but so far there hasn't been a reply. To my regret I have to say that Spooners doesn't deliver quality meals, it has an ambience that most railway restaurant managers would die for, the staff are really good, but the food is dreadful.

I have to say that I haven't travelled on the WHR because it's too expensive for me and I never buy railway branded clothing because I think they're a bit naff with their dirty great advertising logos. And on the sub-topic of Welsh placenames, I'm perfectly happy for the Welsh to decide that they want their language on maps, road signs etc and I don't mind at all if they want Port Madoc to be Porth Madog but I would like them to include a 'Welsh for Tiny Tots' explanation of how to 'sound-out' the syllables.

Regards

 

The whr/fr do run a tight ship when it comes to pricing and I find that they exercise their will to maximise revenue wherever possible. I have been a member of the whr from the beginning but am forced to resign along with, I suspect, many others who simply cannot meet the membership fees price hike coming shortly. The point I am making here is that as a company they are very much the Manchester United et al of the preservation world and are seeking to maximise revenue from the BMW owner on his family holiday; someone who will have a mental budget of £200 a day for his family of 4. On the WHR this won't get much more than a ride, a meal and a snack. It's their right to target such a market so let's not get sentimental. The fr/whr is not about preservation it is a product, this has always been the case and will continue to be so. I live a long way from the railway and £35 a year is excessive to just keep in touch as is the return fare on the lines. Travel on both lines is more per mile than the national network but demand has to be limited to avoid overcrowding, this is done though pricing. A return from Caernarfon to Porthmadog is nearly 2 days work at the minimum wage. I accept that the fr is not for the likes of rail enthusiasts anymore so just move on.

 

On the first point, we are all entitled to an opinion but I have to disagree - it is not an opinion I share.

On the second, yes the fare for the whole round trip is expensive - it cannot sadly realistically be less - but you could either consider doing a part-trip, say Porthmadog to Rhyd Ddu or Caernarfon to Beddgelert. Better yet, become a volunteer and do it in a works train! actuall I don't buy railway branded clothing either, I simply don't like it.

On the third, beginners' guides to Welsh are available in the shops. A basic level of pronunciation is easily attainable as is a comprehension of what place names mean.

Ian King

 

The WHR whole line return fare is huge but as has been said Caernarfon - Beddgelert or a whole line FR trip is surely the better option anyway. Five hours on a train is a real challenge.

 

What food is dreadful in Spooners? I'm intrigued.

 

I'm in the same boat on this, and think the topic deserves its own thread on here. Anyone want to kick it off? If not I'll set one up tomorrow.

 

Not another Bloody FR/WHR thread please whilst i agree the FR is the best thing since sliced bread having worked there for a time isnt it time we focused on other lines on here as for the origional poster if you think spooners is expensive Try a the rather fine Sportsman around the corner from the WHHR! spooners is quality and not overpriced .

Branded clothing is expensive to produce embroidered shirts are not cheap even in large numbers that will be produced for the two railways
Garratts are the main draw for the WHR if you dont like them you shall have to lump them or wait until the NG15 is rebuilt and then try it again

 

I wasn't aware there was a limit on the number of threads on any particular topic and I assume you aren't a member of the WHR and so aren't affected by this. You don't have to read it do you?

 

Except for Portmadoc which is named after the chap who instigated the Cob and basically made 'Porthmadog' what it is today. Portmadoc is in my view an exception to the general rule, a sort of reverse to what you might expect. In the main the Welsh names are the real ones. After all Lloyd George fought hard to put right a century or more's suppressing of the language of Wales, disgustingly similarly enacted to the suppression of Catalans and Basques in Spain.

Its still Portmadoc.

 

I detect a certain sadness in this article, this makes me angry, i believe what you have said is close to the truth. Has the WHR/FR turned it's back on the normal punter in order to get the money in and only to get the money in ? I am pro WHR but not in this form, when i put up money for the construction it was for something completely different, i get the impression i have been tricked, even conned. I wanted the reconstruction of the WHR or close to it, similar to what it was like before albeit with a certain modernisation, not a tourist railway hell bent on serving the rich. Yes i am angry because a large part of the money which went into the construction came from the public, there is a moral obligation to provide for the public in general and not a selected few, everyone should have the chance to do the jouney in full regardless of individual income, this means cheaper fares and more trains. More smaller trains with real stations providing scenic stopping off points and friendly staff, cheap prices and with full participation of the WHHR. The choice of the Garratts at the beginning say's it all, this shows clearly the mentality and thinking at the WHR, this is without doubt their biggest mistake which has in part led them down the wrong road !! Lastly, the word which seems for me to sum up the feeling i get emanating from the WHR/FR is snob, it's a snob railway and that is a big shame.

 

Oh well, let us scrap the new comfortable coaches and bring in tiny locomotives that cannot pull the skin off a rice pudding. Let's get rid of the paved paltforms and toilets while we are at it. Perhaps we should have light rails and rotten sleepers.

We can all then enjoy the worst railway in Britain. Just as it was pre-war. At least the Royal Goat would do well out of it, looking after all of the stranded passengers.

Endless 1 in 40 may have something to do with it.

Better still, let us rip the whole lot up and wait for a preservation society to build it. Oh, sorry, I forgot that we waited 50 years with the last lot.

Long live the RhE, the most amazing narrow gauge railway in the UK.

sorry Roger, but:

Wales relies of tourism and should be making the place welcoming for all of us 'foreign types' to visit from over the border. I doubt the Greeks expect us to learn their language before we visit so neither should the Welsh. As far as I am concerned, I learn useful languages. I suggest that bitter recriminations against the English are more likely to push visitors to go to Spain.

Welshified place names are the 'correct' name for the Welsh but not the English (unless, of couse, they enjoy mispronouncing Welsh names).

 

Excellent, well said Mr Baldwin, your choice of the word snob was precise, this is also the impression i received when i was there. I can only agree with what you've written, long may it continue my dear chap.

 

An adult return on the WHR is £32. The National Minimum Wage pays £47.44 a day. One child under 16 goes free with every adult, thus your family of four would pay £64 out of their £200 budget.

 

Aren't you being just a little insensitive there ? the truth of the matter is that the WHR/FR are too expensive and even more so now with the economic situation, have a little heart, please.

 

I know i dont have to read it but by way of pointing out on the front page of the narrow gauge section there's 7 separate topics for the FR/WHR. so perhaps mods could combine these into one ? just to condense the information and make it easier to look for other Non FR subjects may get look in

 

Isnt it amazing how threads about the WHR attract so many new members....

Baldwin, if you feel conned by the WHR then you only have yourself to blame - it has always been clear that this was how the WHR was going to be rebuilt, even i knew it as a 10 year old child reading magazine articles and looking through the guidebook when riding the first section and nothing has surprised me since.

Whats really dissapointing however is the way you've decided to express your dissapointment - by calling for a public enquiry over the WHHR issue, making completely erroneous claims that the WHR is a flop because your train wasnt full and you couldnt see any passengers in some German photo's and now your complaining that the shop dares to put profit first. and fares should be cheaper because public funds were involved. Its daft.

Chris

 

Yes you are right, i am consistent, i also have a fair character but most of all i am sincere. You should read my postings properly so as not to make mistakes, i never said that the WHR was a flop. I do have myself to blame you're quite right for participating in the WHR. Lastly, to all, instead of arguing about this subject and automatically taking sides woudn't it be better to try to understand the other's point of view ?

 

Ah, so that will be why WHR passenger bookings are up 63% year to date...:whoo:

 

Something completely different? Where did you get that impression? The proposals were absolutely clear, from the beginning, a new railway on the formation of the old. The only trickery or sense of being 'conned' exists in your own mind. The choice of Garratts was also made clear from the start and does, indeed, 'show the mentality and thinking at the WHR' and for very good reasons.

The original railway was under capitalised with inadequate motive power and the rolling stock was antiquated, even by the standards of the ninteen twenties. Its performance was dreadful; just read some of the contemporary reports and criticisms.

If it is going down the wrong road, then perhaps you might explain why passengers are so reluctant to travel in the 'original' type of carriages. They are always the last to fill up. We live in the twenty first century where passengers appreciate little 'snobbish' touches like toilets, at seat service and hot food. There is nothing snobbish about that. The railway, in its original incarnation, was a dismal failure and any attempt to reproduce that would quickly result in its demise.

If any 'preserved' railway had to rely on 'enthusiasts' for a living, it would not last long. They are a very small proportion of those who buy tickets. It is Mr & Mrs Whatsit and the kids who pay the bills not the 'purists' who carp on endlessly about 'liveries'.

How many of the 'preserved lines' of today are anywhere near authentic? Corridor stock with Buffet Cars on branch lines, well stocked book shops, real ale bars etc? Why is it that so many enthusiasts are prepared to go to verbal war about the 'wrong' stock on the 'wrong' line but happily ignore everything else, especially those piles of cobwebbed trunks on immovable platform trollies?

The WHR has to exist in a harsh commercial world along with every other tourist attraction. It has to pay its way. The idea that little trains with limited capacity would, somehow, be an improvement is way off the mark. The WHR is no different to any other railway. It needs bums on seats and plenty of them. So far that is exactly what is happening so, maybe, the management know a little more about running a railway than you.

Meic