Liverpool Road and the Ordsall Curve.

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

OK, but what is the Grade 1 structure that's at risk? I last made a visit to MOSI about three years ago and they had attached a 'window' with a door to the front of the railway station and put an art display on inside. If MOSI are allowed to do that to the station, I can't imagine what else they, or anybody else, will get away with.

Earlier in this thread concern had been expressed about the future status about the bridges over the Irwell; are these the structures in question? My reading of the project is that they won't touched, but I'm not too sure about their long-term future as they don't seem to have a practical use either for the present or future.

I can't help but feel that there is a need here to be pretty unsentimental about the bridges. There are many Stephenson structures around the country many of them on the L&MR which are still put to a practical use. Do we really need to preserve everything?

Regards

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Over on the Skyscraper City forum, there is an excellent discussion on the Ordsall Curve and associated works to be found here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1345619&page=18

Some pretty intelligent discourse there, well worth a look.

Neil

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

One of the bridges is Grade 1 listed. The other, I believe, is not in very good condition. As the Castlefield Jct to Ordsall Lane, Museum and Ordsall Lane to Man Vic lines are all the same height, then it seems that the museum line would have to go, including the bridge. Just to clarify this. It is the bridge over the River Irwell that is grade 1 listed, not the bridges over Water Street.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I do wonder about the Grading system, Manchester Central Library for example is being gutted and changed beyond recognition, the fact that there won't be enough room for all the books has been glossed over, it's more important to have a flash café.

Dave

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

It is Grade 1 for at least two key reasons:

First of all its connection with the Liverpool & Manchester. The bridge itself was designed in the way it was to meet the requirements of clearance for the Irwell Navigation Company who used the river Irwell at the time. The height of the bridge inturn dictated the layout of the Liverpool Road station site and was the reason that water street bridge had to be developed as the worlds first girder bridge to clear water street. Many forget it was nearly the Liverpool and Salford Railway in 1830.

The bridge can also be classed in the same degree as ironbridge as it was the first skewed arch bridge in the world, this is the second reason it is listed.

Beneath the bridge are the original stables for Liverpool Road and date from 1830.

Regards

Duncan

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Also a link to a Rail Engineer article on the project http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1swz5/RailEngineerJuly2011/resources/14.htm

Dave

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Yes, much intelligent discussion. I didn't realise until I read the posts that the Govt has already allocated £85M for the project and NR is well into the design process. It would take a very brave planning authority to say no!

Regards

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

If you look at Page 17 (your link is for Page 14) it mentions that the Ordsall Curve is to be 'entirely elevated' to clear the Irwell and the inner ring road. Could this be another reason to think that the impact on MOSI is going to be very limited?

See: http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1swz5/RailEngineerJuly2011/resources/16.htm

Regards

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I havent seen anything to suggest the bridge will need to go - to the contrary, the Initial Environmental Information says "...the railway would run on a combination of new and existing bridges and viaducts. This would require construction of new structures crossing the River Irwell and IRR, that would connect into existing listed bridges and viaducts associated with the former Liverpool Road Station."

I've seen mention of 'modifications' to the existing listed structures elsewhere too, so it looks like thats the approach they're taking - the only thing that may need to be removed is the Princes Bridge carrying Hampson Street.

Chris

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Removal of the Princes Bridge does not matter. Following the construction of the IRR, its is a dead bridge, no longer in use. Are you really aware of the present railway infrastructure that will be involved in construction of the chord. The chord will be built from one pre-existing viaduct to another, crossing the throat of the MOSI railway, which is also on bridges and a viaduct. Now, something will have to go at MOSI, so what will it be?

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

It'll probably be the cafe that makes the library viable.
Something many public libraries may need to adjust to in order to survive.

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

I suppose it's a sign of the times that a library has to be viable. At least this puts the Central Library in the same category as the British Library as having acres (literally so in the case of the BM) given over to non-library functions so books and documents have to be kept off-site because there's no room for them, but there is room for excellent but completely non-functional architectural features.

Regards

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Back on topic the next round of consultation begins on the 20th November at MoSI

Further information here:

Ordsall Chord - Network Rail

Duncan

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Not very many people realise that this proposal could result in the loss of a major chunk of Manchesters railway heritage and one that is unique to anywhere else in the world because it was the first in the world - The Liverpool & Manchester Railway of 1830

Network Rail are claiming that putting extra trains on an already congested railway line between Piccadilly and Ordsall Lane will result in an improved service. They also seem to have overlooked the fact that moving the chord slightly to the North would save the Stephensons Grade 1 listed bridge by using brownfield land and would probably be cheaper than an expensive viaduct crossing road, rail and river.

Finally we should ask will any of this be really necessary. The arrival of HS2 in Manchester could rewrite the whole railway map of the area so I urge you to go along to one of the consultations below and help to save a vital piece of our history.


Tuesday 20 November, 4pm - 8pm, Museum of Science & Industry
Wednesday 21 November, 12pm-8pm, Museum of Science & Industry
Friday 23 November, 12pm - 8pm, Creative Media Centre, Salford
Saturday 24 November, 1pm - 5pm, Museum of Science & Industry
Monday 26 November, 4pm - 8pm, Salford Central Station
Tuesday 27 November, 10am - 5pm, Manchester Town Hall
Wednesday 28 November, 4pm - 8pm, Manchester Piccadilly Station

84014

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Not wishing to spoil things, but first in the world at what? OK, first railway between Liverpool and Manchester!

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The link between MOSI and the rail network hasn't been used for a very long time even by the museum itself. I can't see any loss at all if it goes. Quite apart from that, the last time I visited MOSI the station buildings had been disfigured by the museum itself.

Time to let go.

Regards

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

The link was certainly used during the 40th anniversary of the 15 Guinea Special in August 2008, but I don't know if it has been used in the four plus years since.



Cheers,
Mick

 

Re: Liverpool Road and the Budget

Indeed it was, on 04/02/2010 - some photos of the event on the A1SLT website here - 4th February - The Royal Train to MOSI

Has anyone got any information about other dates when the MoSI link to the national network has been used?

Cheers,
Mick