Return of the Photo/Video Challenge ?

Evening Guys

After reading the Buxton tour thread and the tangent thread created about the merits/criticism's of a particular video, it shows to me there seems quite a lot of opinions in expressing the merits and constructive criticism's of Video's and Photo's on here and got me wondering, would it be a good idea to bring back the Old Photo Challenge we used to have here in a modified form ?.

What im suggesting is a dedicated thread in the Photography part of the forum called something suitable "The Photo/Video Challenge" for example, where users can post Video's or Photo's of theirs for others to pass opinion on using the dedicated thread, those who do not wish to participate obviously woulden't have to post in the thread and it would save cluttering up threads elsewhere with Photographic opinions.

What do you guys think ?.

 

Would be a good idea in my view. The old photo challenge was useful for sharing of opinions of peoples photos.

 

Judging by how people react when their work isn't praised to the heavens I don't think this would be very successful.

 

That's the beauty of having a specific thread for the purpose, those who don't wish to have their work scrutinised simply dont post in the thread, it's entirely the posters choice.

Personally i learnt quite a lot from the old photo challenge, looking back at my phot's prior to that now, they are truly shocking, it was mainly down to suggestions on how to improve from the challange (and help from a certain Liverpool resident) that made me get them up to something approaching an acceptable level.

 

The better place for this kind of idea is on Flickr groups like this one:

http://www.flickr.com/groups/railphoto/

 

The only way it really works is if the opinions being posted are balanced and truly constructive. Those submitting do need a fairly thick skin, but it's their choice to submit. When the old challenge was up and running, 'wise_one' did a really good job of providing a critique of the images. There were some dreadful images submitted, but also some crackers, along with everything inbetween. The idea was to encourage and help one another improve, as we're all at different levels / abilities, not to shoot down the poster and likely mean that they'd never post an image again. His critiques were pretty much always subtle enough so as not to cause offense, but to provide some constructive advice. I'm pretty sure 'wise_one' could've trashed many of those images, if he'd wanted, but doing so wouldn't achieve anything positive.

Taking your posting on the Buxton thread as an example, it wasn't particularly constructive, and did come across as trolling. There was no real suggestion for how the video could've been improved, apart from saying that you didn't like the train disappearing behind a wall. It's pretty easy to say you don't like something, but much harder to say how you would make it better. To do so, generally requires you to have a knowledge of the limitations of the location, as most we end up at are a compromise and you have to make the best of what's available. Otherwise every shot would be taken at Birkett and other such locations that are "perfect". I always think that if you want to make a negative point in a critique, you should try to balance it with the positive. With some images it can be hard to find the positive, but with the vast majority there's good and bad.

So, for that video, if I wanted to make a critique including your point, I might say something along the lines of "I really like the early morning atmosphere of the video, it's perhaps a touch too blue, but that might even add to the cold morning feel? The steam hanging in the air as the train approaches is a really nice effect, but I personally think it's a shame the loco disappears behind a wall as it nears the camera. I'm not sure if you could do anything about it at that particular location as moving closer to the line might lose you the height/angle necessary to shoot the more distant section, but worth keeping in mind if you revisit the location."

Whether a critique section is successful depends on there being enough photographers willing to spend the time providing critiques and discussion. Last time, the whole process was largely kept going by a couple of people. While flickr might be a good forum for doing it, P&ARP is more aimed at 'advanced' photters and less suitable for those of all abilities.

 

Excellent post Paul - you obviously have a high quota of 'emotional intelligence (EQ).' Thats the nub of the matter in my opinion. People often make critical comments without having the ability to assess, nor care about the impact it will have on others. Then of course you have the individual who believes they are God's gift to photography and 'Lord it' over others or the worst kind - the troll. There is a good measure of all behaviours on this site and lack of 'voice tone' leaves almost every comment open to misinterpretation. Ho hum - such is life.

 

Ditto that - in your penultimate para you have made the point that so many of us were trying to convey to Neil, it's not so much what was said but the way it was said. Had he phrased it as you had, then it's likely none of us would have batted an eyelid, and Mr Thompson would still be entertain ing us with his work.

 

Noted!

 

Sorry Martin, I hadn't intended on continuing that specific debate, it just seemed to be the most pertinent example to illustrate what I was getting at. I do think that if a critique section was to be successful, then wherever possible, critiques need to be balanced not just focussed on negative (or positive) aspects. So far, there doesn't seem to be a mad rush for people to get involved, so it probably won't happen. There are occasionally folk who post an image to the photography section anyway, asking for comments, so I guess it can just continue that way without being formalised.

 

As the person who set up the fotopic site a number of years ago for the photo challenge and "kept it going" I would agree with some of the comments on here about people being unable to take adverse comments.

However if you had thicker skin it was as David says a very good way to learn

I'm sure it would be fairly easy to set up something similar on zenfolio or smug mug the advantage of fotopic was it was free and most people knew how it worked.

btw who was the wise one?

 

That's the main reason i suggested a thread here with links posted to images as the demise of Fotopic and the scattering of Photographers to many different hosts has complicated things somewhat.

 

Personally, I'd be happy to submit photos for critique/opinions - whilst by no means a professional I take photography reasonably seriously, and am always looking for tips and ideas on how to improve. However, after reading recent threads, and on past experience, I have to confess I'm not sure I'd have the balls to post critique in the thread! I'll not post specific quotes, not least because we've already had one warning in this thread about straying back into a previous one, but it does seem to me that on occasion a significant minority of the forum is keen to jump upon anyone not conforming to the agreed opinion on a given subject; once they have been identified it seems that anything from "your opinion is wrong" to downright personal attacks go unchallenged! Whilst I'd like to see it happen, I honestly couldn't see it working on here, with many people seemingly over-keen to leap instantly on the defensive. I'm minded of the recent news stories regarding a kids' football league recording all games purely as wins/losses/draws, to save the kids embarrassment after a thrashing. It's all very well being saved the shame of a bad result, but it gives no sense of achievement after a brilliantly-played match / brilliantly-composed photo! With that in mind, it seems maybe this will always be the place for the cult of Personality - for Democracy, I too will stick with flickr groups!

 

That was one reason why the original challenge was run "off site"

 

Oh, I see! In that case, I'd suggest possibly a dedicated flickr group? Takes 2 minutes to set up, and anybody could add their images to the group, without needing one poor bloke constantly sat updating a website! This would also allow users to remove their photos instantly if they didn't like the comments. :lol: