Crewe Heritage Centre for Sale

I think some of your criticism is a little unfair.

For example, a few years ago a lot of effort was put into mounting a new display in the Exhibition Hall based around a newly-restored LNWR TPO coach. But then what happened? Mr. Waterman wanted space for the apprentices to work on the WHR Garratt restoration and simply cleared the display out without the knowledge or approval of the Trustees.

When you have someone occupying the site who thinks they can behave in that manner, it is little wonder that volunteers get disheartened. The wonder of it is that there are still any volunteers at all.

As I've said before, the sale of the 125-year lease won't guarantee to make a difference. But there are signs now that the Trustees are taking a firmer stance with Mr. Waterman and, if it can eventually be agreed which parts of the site he is allowed to occupy, and which not, then things should begin to improve. But it won't be a five-minute job.

And as for Exeter West, we always try and keep our signal box and GUV looking smart. We intended to have the GUV repainted this year, but with all the dust blowing around from the Tesco demolition/rebuilding, that woud have been a waste. But it's on the 'to do' list for 2012.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

To put a bit more 'flesh on the bones' so to speak, there has been absolutely no interest in the lease sale from any outside parties. Crewe Heritage Trust have made a bid, and it is assumed that Mr. Waterman has done the same. If these remain the only two bids it is difficult to see how the lease could be awarded to either party, as neither can really fulfil the conditions laid down by Cheshire East Council for the grant of the lease.

At the end of the month the whole matter is to be debated by the Cabinet of Cheshire East Council following Councillor Macrae's disregard of the clearly-expressed wish of a Council Scrutiny Committee that the decision to offer the lease be deferred for two years. A complaint has also been lodged about the conduct of certain Cheshire East councillors and officials over this whole matter.

We all agree with Councillor Macrae that the present state of affairs is unsatisfactory but he continually fails to acknowledge that this is not the fault of the present Council of Management, who have been striving long and hard to put things right. The blame lies squarely with Mr. Waterman who refuses to negotiate and will not sign any agreement that does not give him EXACTLY what he wants. Perhaps Councillor Macrae would like to join in this discussion and say how HE would deal with a situation like that.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

I agree with your sentiment Ralph, but I read the reference to the 'Council of Management' as being the Crewe Heritage Centre CoM, rather than a Local Council body. I know at Swanage our Trust Directors are referred to as members of the Council of Management.

 

That is absolutely correct.

However - the concept of cabinet government at local council level is utterly pernicious. It excludes local councillor involvement with key decisions and marginalises those outside, or who disagree with the inner sanctum, and that is NOT what local democracy should be about - but - what's new? If the cabinet chooses not to talk with your local councillor they won't and they ceretainly won't talk to you.

Life has always been about power broking and that is what this is. The only real avenue is a complaint about maladministration, but Crewe Council have a ready answer in the shenanigens of the unofficial spread of LNWR across the Trust area. It needs sorting - but with the Council acting together with the Trust, not against it like this.

Money talks - aand we know who has it in this context.

 

I don't think that your message is at all helpful, Ralph, and it isn't simply a case of people giving themselves grandiose titles. I'm afraid you demonstrate a lack of understanding.

Cheshire East Council has a 'Cabinet' because that is the way the Council organisation is structured, and is a generally-recognised term just as the term 'Cabinet' is used when referring to the Government. A 'Scrutiny Committee' is called such because that is what its function is - to scrutinise decisions that have been made.

One problem is that many of the Cabinet and Scrutiny Committee members are NOT local Crewe Councillors - just look at their details on the Cheshire East Council website to see how far away from Crewe some of them actually live. So much for local democracy.

Regarding the term 'Council of Management' this is used because the people who manage Crewe Heritage Trust are NOT Trustees - there is a subtle but important legal difference.

So it is most emphatically not the case that people are giving themselves grandiose titles - the titles are used because they are what the law requires.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Rates follow the actual occupation - even if it is illegal. The fact that a property is used as brothel, for example, does not excuse the payment of business rates. One of the main advantages of rates is that an occupier cannot escape paying rates even if it is based in an overseas tax haven. Mr Green's company pays rates on BHS stores even if it avoids income and capital taxes. And the Council does not determine what property is rateable or the rateable value. It is done by a Govt. Agency.

 

Although business rates are collected by Councils in England and Wales they are, effectively, a central government tax. Local councils have no power to set the level of business rates and the receipts from all authorities are pooled and then redistributed according to a Government formula.

 

To update folk on the situation, the matter of the lease sale was debated at the meeting of the Cabinet of Cheshire East Council yesterday afternoon. My informant, who attended the meeting, tells me that Crewe Heritage Trust made their position clear and there was a great deal of support for them from many Councillors. But the Cabinet decision, despite everything that has been said and written, was that the advertised lease sale will go ahead.

So it appears that the word 'democracy' is either unknown to Cheshire East Council or they do not understand it. If you live in their area of jurisdiction you will no doubt be overjoyed to hear that your Council Tax is spent on Scrutiny Committees whose majority views is then simply ignored.

We now have to wait and see what happens. The closing date for tenders for the lease was November 18th - Crewe Heritage Trust have made a bid, and it is assumed (but not known for certain) that Mr. Waterman will have done likewise. A revelation should not be long coming - and that is when things could get REALLY interesting!

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Best of luck Peter - with such fair minded administration as that, you may need it!

 

Just did a google for Cllr Macrae & came up with this:
http://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/ecminutes/UserData/4/1/4/Info00000414/Cllr J Macrae.pdf
This is declaration of interests.

 

The decision on the granting of the 125-year lease is now long overdue, so clearly Cheshire East Council are finding this a difficult issue. In the meantime you might like to read this article:

Walsh slates 'Pop Idol' judge Waterman - Pop Idol News - TV - Digital Spy

It echoes many of our own experiences and sentiments.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

...really?

I doubt Louis Walsh has gone one year of Pop Idol or X Facto since 2003 without some rediculous feud with a fellow judge - its panto, nothing more. Perhaps your right about Pete, but posting a link like that just looks petty; his inability to win a singing contest with a bland boyband is of no relevance, and neither is being called a 'joke' with an 'overinflated ego' by someone whose made a TV career by being just that.

Chris

 

I don't know whether you have to deal with Waterman in relation to your 'box? Allying yourself to Walsh's comments made back in 2003 might not be a very wise move on a public forum? Beware the libel lawyers.

 

I've not been to CHC in many years, nothing has really floated my boat to make me want to go and I've not really seen much in the way of self promotion.
by return, the LNWR engineering business seems to be flourishing and is regularly in the headlines for its work, rather than its owner.
rather than continually blaming the owner of an outgrowing successful engineering business they should be looking at how they could be improving their own product.
perhaps the guys at Crewe could pay a visit to Tyseley and see how their model is so much more successful... Both have a similar site with access and size constraints, and engineering businesses.

My five minute thought would be focus on creating an LMS charter rake, promoting tours, as the engines are already frequent visitors. I'd also suggest embracing the churnet valley, who will shortly be only 20minutes from Crewe with a far superior offering, but potential for links to Crewe. Failing that I would foresee a future where CHC is swallowed by LNWR and it's museum assets moving to Stoke...Exeter signalbox would look very much the part at Stoke on the MCR line close to the junction, considering its size, maybe even part of the frame could be used by the MCR providing a real aspect to displays offered to visitors today ?

 

I think I am correct in saying that Tyseley is only open to the public for the occasional open day now.

 

Exactly... But I wouldn't say they were unsuccessful ? Rather being all things to all people, they become more select.
My guess is they have more visitors at there open days now, than when they were open year round.

To me there's too many competing factors, not least a supermarket slowly eating their land, visiting locos, engineering works, and several attractions which are somewhat less well presented, I can't remember it's last special event.. Well actually I can... July 1987 and the cavalcade from the works with 6201, 71000, 48151, D1041,24054 and D1842, I'm sure there must have been something else since.

if they worked with LNWR to have set Open days, it could be a showcase of the whole site, offer at least a shuttle service, if not rail tours.. Even if it were only Crewe -Chester shuttles, right now it seems to me like Dinting waiting to happen again, rather than open every day with everything off limits and no one to show.

Unfortunately museums of static locomotives with limited events and no mainline operation tend to get missed off the beaten track... Dinting, North Woolwich, Southport, South Yorks Rly... who last went to Tiverton or to see 46235 ? Look how the profile of Manchester science museum has risen since its gathering a year or so back.

In my opinion they would be better to save themselves by organising the resources they have in the most effective way they can... If its lack of volunteers, it's usually due to lack of interest...so make it interesting and volunteers and paying public will come.