J39 Locomotive Group

For those who haven't seen it yet...
J39 Locomotive Group
Much progress has been made since the last post was made on this forum!!

EGBDF
(Vice-Project Manager)

 

I have just given in to temptation and visited the (actually very good at first glance) website. I am very concerned though to note the following:

You intend to build the boiler out of COPPER????

25k to buy the tender and refurbish it with a new tank?

80k for wheels and accessories. what are these accessories - possibly pink fluffy wheel warmers...?

Where did these prices come from?

If the Engineering Manager specified a copper boiler I really think you may need to scrutinise his credentials (stated on the website he helped 'restore' Tornado!)

Lastly is this actually going to be a 5" model?

Sorry people you aren't going upwards in the credibility stakes I'm afraid.

 

Well said Maunsell man . I wondered about the copper boiler too .

 

The name of the Engineer doesn't appear on 60163 website, and surely it was them who looked after their own loco?

The Team

As for the copper boiler, inner firebox maybe, full boiler no. It is simple mistakes like this that is doing this group no good. You maybe full of enthusiasm but if you are getting basic facts wrong then how can you encourage people to support you?

I would like to see a J39 run, and like the idea of the project in having youngsters leading it. But you need to get some experience to help guide you and give the project some credibility, as at present this ain't happening.

 

Copper boiler = drastically improves steaming qualities.

With regard to what lil Bear said, the group is currently working very hard behind the scenes with a lot of well known faces from the preservation movement, so please don't 'sign off' this project quite yet!

 

Pray stop digging the hole you are in any deeper! A copper firebox may improve steaming capacity. A whole boiler made of copper will not only be ruinously expensive but also will increase heat loss through the lagging.

People better qualified than I can comment as to whether copper has the necessary strength to cope with a full sized, as opposed to model, boiler operating at a significant pressure.

P.H.

 

I think 60163's cab was rivetted together at the NYMR, but that's hardly a major contrbution to its construction. I don't think that the individual named as theGgroup's engineering manager is particularly well known there either.

I'm definitely in the camp of those who would like to see a J39 built, but unless there is an infusion of maturity and experience to mentor its founders I fear it is unlikely to be taken seriously.

 

I regret to say I am in the sceptical camp also.Even more so when I read this bit "Copper boiler = drastically improves steaming qualities."
There are a lot of people on here able to freely give you much good advice EGBDF, but you need to be prepared to listen to what they are saying.

 

Any new build scheme that plans to build a new boiler with a copper firebox is flying the face of reality. Arsenical copper is unlikely to remain available for much longer (I believe it is now only manufactured in third world countries where H & S regulations are more relaxed) and the only choice before many years have elapsed is likely to be steel. The only exception to this in the foreseable future is 82045, because they've already bought their copper. I know it has been stolen, but presumably it will be replaced under insurance cover. It remains to be seen if even the Patriot receive a copper-fireboxed boiler.

 

But you're signing yourself off with postings like that! If an all copper boiler was such a good idea, why didn't Churchward / Gresley / Stanier build such??

You maybe talking to well known faces, but are you listening?

 

It was this bit (from their news page) that made me chuckle:

5/12/11- we now know the LNER number for 64960- 4960 !

That's news?! I still wish the project well though, keep at it lads.

 

64960 built Darlington 1938. Original LNER No. 1942. 1946 LNER No. 4960.

 

Whilst I appreciate the effort behind the project and I would love to see a J39 built... the engineering side worries me, if you look at alot of the successful groups they have people within them that know alot about engineering through either working as a team that previously restored locos or assembling a team of people who have had experience across the engineering and preservation spectrum - sometimes based within a respected engineering community. You don't appear to have any of that... and it shows already.

Please, please get involved in the community... but at the tender ages you are and your limited experience you would be much better off trying to get into pre-existing teams and gathering knowledge from them through taking part in maintainence/restorations.

 

I think engineering is the least of your problems as this can and should be contracted out to the likes of Llangollen Tysely South Devon GNS etc doing this will give you the engineering credability you need and right now its at Zero

As I said least of your problems, funding it is the be an end all no cash no loco

I advise you take it in small chunks as well instead of we want 55k for a set of frames, break it down to frameplates stretchers etc one piece at a time

Raising say 10k for frame plates is a good start you will need advice on Steel Spec, machining, etc

Start talking to people who are already doing it

 

With the copper boiler maybe you could add cast aluminium wheels and a fibreglass cylinder block to save weight. Actually that was a bit of a cheeky Friday night dig. Unfortunately you folks have laid yourself open to that. Unless you can get a good dollop of credibility your project will not even get to the shed full of of nameplates and smokebox doors as you won't generate a penny of funding.

Go and do your apprenticeship within the steam railway engineering centres either as volunteers or as full time careers then get yourselves known and respected within the community. Then shag about and get drunk (like all teenagers and youngsters), establish your careers, get married and have the family. ONCE you have done that you are in a position to start a project like this. Money, careers, crumpet followed by wagging tongue, family commitments followed by threat of divorce for spending too much time with your train focus the mind and make you choose between family life or trains and living in a bedsit alone surrounded by empty tins of white lightening and pizza boxes . Believe me your mrs won't like you spending every weekend and several evenings a week building engines. If you can manage the domestic commitments, keep a life and build an engine then go for it. Many, many young people who were bursting with keenness and acne have disappeared from the railway scene at the first flash of a pair of knickers!

 

Being probably not even born at the time, i don't know but wasn't the Great Western Society originally formed at least in part by school boys?

I know of plenty of people still active in various railways who were "there at the start", and hence must have been under 20 when they started.

One of the greatest threats to our movement is the off-putting attitude of some older hands (in my experience, usually those who are older in age but more recent in their position on a railway) to any new comer, especially one who dares to be young and even worse if they are enthusiastic! Managing "youthful high spirits" is not always easy, but speaking as some-one who has done my growing up (or perhaps not at times!) as part of a heritage railway "family", the fact that there are some on here who take personal pride in being sancamonious and seeking out enthusiastic but perhaps nieve youngsters to humilate them is very sad.

Steven

 

You aren't wrong there, Steven. A good number of the early schemes were started up by people largely under the age of 18. I got into the game at the age of 12 - fiftieth year of penance next year!

They youngsters obviously have a lot to learn and will do much of that by making mistakes. Unlike in my early days,it certainly won't be an easy ride for them; rules and ideas have changed a lot in the last fifty years. One big difference between then and now was the fact that steam was largely the norm in all sorts of industry in those days and there were a lot of people who had experience of it. Now, such people are few and far between.
Looking at their website, I was impressed by the number of people apparently involved and the fact that there were photos of them. The choice of loco is a good one, too. A J39 would be a worthwhile and much wanted asset on most heritage railways and relatively simple and inexpensive. Far more useful and practical than a P2!!

PS for Steven; Do you have a spellchecker?

 

There is a spell check button but it requires a special tool downloading - Do I take it your first line is diliberate!

(Surely you must remember the effect the spell-checker had on Moors Herald - all correctly spelt, just maybe not the correct word!)

Steven