WLLR level crossings

I really cannot imagine Castle Caereinion with anything more than the current level crossing arrangements, but ...

Mid Wales railway faces huge bill for a new level crossing - North Wales News - News - Daily Post North Wales

 

This seems like a massive over reaction from the authorities and unfair on the WLLR. Surely motorists should have to fund some of the cost if an automatic crossing is really needed (which I don't believe it is). It will slightly ruin the character of the line as well which is a shame.

 

never never I'LL could understand the SHEER STUPIDITY of the british HSE ,unequalled in the World!
regards
Noel

 

I can't see the need for fully automatic barriers IMHO, although can understand why they've expressed concerns about railway staff safety standing in the middle of the road.

I would have thought manually operated crossing gates/barriers that close off across the road would be adequate. The only obvious operational difference between that and an automatic system would be the train needing to stop for the fireman to close the barriers and again subsequently for the guard to open them again. From the road traffic's point of view when they approach they'll find a gate/barrier across the road with a shiny reflector facing them irrespective of whether it was put there automatically by an electric motor, or manually by the train crew.

 

Indeed - which I expect is where the concern about a fireman holding a red flag stems from. It's infinately preferable for a car to collide with a gate, barrier, or train than it is for them to come scooting along and collide with a fireman.


Edit: Of course it'd be quite nice if they could manage not to collide with anything, but given a choice avoiding the fireman would be a good start...

 

Seems a bit OTT to me. One place on the national network where I go to view modern traction has a manual level crossing worked by a keeper who pushes the gates shut over a road that is far, far busier than the one at Castle Caereinion. What is wrong with installing a system whereby the gates are closed by a wheel as on other heritage lines?

 

Actually the stupid people are the road users. If you have never flagged a train across Castle Caereinion crossing you won't have any idea.

 

This is typical British OTT hysteria. Has there ever been a collision at this spot? If so, what was the cause? Was there serious damage or injury? Why is the railway's expense to provide an unnecessary automatic barrier/ gate? I despair of this country.

 

Wouldn't it be easyer to put a 20 speed limit around the crossing with a camera.

 

Anyone have a link to the ORR report?

Steve

 

Obviously what we haven't seen is the report from ORR itself, but rather the paper's summary of the railway spokesman's summary of it. But I rather suspect that, as well as expressing concern over the fireman's safety, they will have pointed out that the red flag has no legal force in itself and there's no specific legislation that requires road traffic to stop when such a flag is shown (though someone ignoring it and endangering the fireman could be charged with careless/dangerous driving I suppose - we know how comprehensive the penalties for those offences are).

If the red flag is to be discontinued I can certainly see that they might feel something other than a plain Open Crossing (without lights) may be required at Castle, but am surprised that barriers would be thought necessary unless "they" are now reluctant to allow a new AOCL? As others have commented, gates that close across the road in the time-honoured fashion would seem worth investigating, if the train crew could operate them safely. At least in that case you'd only be crossing the road, with a rather large obstacle, rather than standing in the middle of it.

 

This is what a PROPER risk assesment should ask.

I fear that the OTT department, not the risk assesors did the assesment for ORR and hence the overkill.
I think the WH & FR were lucky the same person had not done the assesment for Britannia Bridge Crossing.........

 

This is one of the most "to the point" comments in this thread. I only disagree slightly with the though that old style swing gates would be appropriate. Someone would have to cross the road to open and close them and they would need advance warning lights.

Gentlemen (I am assuming that those posting are male) get real! The W&llr was conceived in the horse and cart age. Even then it was felt the visibility at this crossing and this crossing alone needed gates to be provided across the line. In the present motor age when one can drive on this road legally, if not sensibly, at 60 m.p.h. the regulating authorities think something more elaborate is needed, again at this location only. Bluntly, please cut the harrumph and let the railway get on with negotiations and fund raising

 

You are clearly rather more closely acquainted with the crossing than most of us here. My own experience of standing in the middle of the road at level crossings is at Brynglas, where the average vehicle speeds are rather lower. (No red flag, all the same.)

One could argue, mind, that if it's simply unsafe for the traincrew to cross the road then that is a road safety issue separate from the level crossing one. In theory, the adjacent station serves the inhabitants of Castle Caereinion and the walking route between village and station is along the same road, so if they cannot safely cross the road on leaving the station to walk home, then something needs to be done about the speed limit...

 

You would cross the road at the top of the hill in both directions.

Trespassing into areas where I have no proof, I suspect a very high proportion of the problem comes from local residents (familiarity, complacency etc.) I really don't want to go into specific issues and remedies too much for I don't want to make needless difficulties for the railway in sorting this out. Could I ask for similar restraint from others please.

Paul H. (erstwhile W&L volunteer who in no way speaks for the railway.)

 

Google streetview approaching by driving up the hill (existing white crossing gate over the railway visible in the distance)
Google streetview approaching by driving down the hill (crossing somewhat obscured on the bend - bear in mind this view is taken from the opposite carriageway from where vehicles would be driving, clearly not ideal visibility for drivers in this direction)


I'll leave people to make their own minds up about where they might cross the road as a pedestrian, but whilst having the crossing situated on a bend doesn't exactly improve things for motorists, it does make it a fairly good location for pedestrians to see what's approaching from both directions (at the crossing looking downhill / looking uphill)


As for demands not to discuss the subject for fear of causing "needless difficulties for the railway" - nothing anyone posts on here is going to alter the opinions of the Office of the Rail Regulator or how the W&LLR approach and resolve the matter. I suppose some people will be condemning the local paper for daring to publish the 'story' in the first place for fear of causing difficulties, perhaps the ORR and the railway themselves should be castigated for making the issue publically known too?! Lol. The postings on here are simply mindless public chitter-chatter and personal opinions of casual observers, no different to letters written to the local press or conversations held down the local pub in Welshpool/Llanfair. Clearly some people feel the W&LLR and the B4385 are equivalent to the West Coast Mainline and the M6 !! Lol.


Ian C. (never had anything to do with W&L, not a local resident, but does live not a million miles away, has driven the road many times, and as a pedestrian manages to safely cross a darn-sight larger and busier roads on a pretty frequent basis)

 

I had in mind detailed discussion of any hits and near misses.

 

What is wanted at each and every crossing in the country is not barriers, but automatic stingers that come out of the ground, or those bollards like they have in Manchester city centre.

Once a few motorists have had to buy a full set of tyres, or had a car written off, they word would soon get round.....