H.M.S. Caroline

With 'Manxman' looking likely for the chop, yet another Cammell Laird built ship ,H.M.S. Caroline is now at risk. Having been decommissioned as a naval reserve training ship in Belfast. As the last survivor of the battle of Jutland surely she should be preserved, or at least mothballed until funding becomes available.

Bob.

 

I don't think she's at as much risk as may be being reported.

Belfast has had an eye on her for many years and there has been talk of using her to establish a maritime museum here.
With the new Titanic building opening in a couple of months and the restoration of SS Nomadic coming along very well, I think there may be very strong public (and museum body) opinion and appeal to keeping her in Belfast


Keith

 

She's in no danger, my copy of Warships IFR Guide to the Royal Navy 2012 reports that:
'The most exciting project the NMRN (National Museum of the Royal Navy) is involved with is the preservation of the sole surviving major British warship, and veteran of the Battle of Jutland, the Light Cruiser HMS Caroline...... Now plans are being made to ensure this historic ship is preserved for the nation as she has been decomissioned by the RN and handed over to the museum'
I heard she's going straight from service to the museum when she's been patched up t the extent that she can float her way down to Portsmouth. The RN appreciate her history, she's no irish sea car carrier and won't be treated as such.

 

That's great news !. Shame about 'Plymouth' & 'Bronington' left rotting in Birkenhead.

Bob.

 

At the end of the day, if you had a choice of the last surviving ship from the battle of Jutland, one of several Falklands veterans (admittedly, where the surrender of the argentines on South Georgia was signed), or a minesweeper that was commanded by Prince Charles for less than a year, i bet you would chose the same. Plymouth still has hope in its association and it deserves a place in Portsmouth (though if Plymouth South dockyard is redeveloped a dry dock there would be a good home), Bronnington is just a wooden minesweeper. Well built yes, but not very historic. She'd make a better yacht than museum, plenty of others have gone for this route.

 

I always thought HMS Caroline was a very important candidate for preservation, as a WW1 counterpoint to HMS Belfast. She fills the gap between Belfast and Warrior. Shame the only pre-Dreadnought you can see is in Japan! Wonderful beasts.

 

That's a big gap to fill with one ship.

 

I think there maybe a pre-dreadnought in usa, could be wrong.

 

There's USS Texas which is a dreadnought, then there's the Greek cruiser George Averof which is an armoured cruiser... but I think along with the Japanese shipone and Caroline that's our lot when it comes to old ships of that ilke. Unfortuntely in the 1970s there was a great missed opportunity in the form of a british pre-deadnought from Peru (!!?) which was broken up in Japan, luckily it's parts were used to help rebuild the japanese ship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_cruiser_Georgios_Averofeor
USS Texas (BB-35) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Isn't the Japanees ship built in the UK?

 

It is, the Mikasa, built by Armstrong Whitworth's I believe. Unfortunately I don't think they'd let us have it back

I agree that it is a massive gap in the history of naval shipbuilding to fill with just the Caroline, but as noted there aren't many alternatives. Personally I find the late Victorian period an absolutely fascinating one in this field, and wish that a Majestic had been survived.

I remember once being exceedingly irate when I sat down to watch a programme called 'Trafalgar to Jutland' or similar, only to find it gave 20 minutes on Trafalgar and 40 on Jutland, with about one sentence to connect the two - 'Ships and tactics changed dramatically over the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries as the transition from Sail to Steam took place' (I paraphrase). Grr!

 

Fair enough... I knew I'd missed one!

Guard Jamie, it is a shame we don't have one of the pre-deadnoughts and compared to the US our Naval preservation is a bit rubbish. However, we are pretty lucky to have Mary Rose, Victory (and the other 18th-19th century wooden ships), Warrior, Caroline, Belfast and (for now) Plymouth to name a few. There's alot of countries that would kill for that collection of naval heritage... it would have been nice to preserve some more along the way, and it would still be nic to get Whimbrel but we aren't doing too bad in the grand scheme of things.

 

Everyone is forgetting HMS Gannet in Chatham Dockyard. Built 1878 with wooden hull over iron frames it certainly fits the pattern of pre-dreadnought. On the subject of historic ships there's also monitor M33, which along with the Caroline is one of 6 ships worldwide to have served in both world wards

 

I admit that I had overlooked the Gannet, despite having heard of her and very much wanting to visit her. Whilst she certainly dates from the pre-Dreadnought period I would disagree with the suggestion that she is actually a pre-Dreadnought - she is very much a sailing vessel with auxiliary steam power and bears a closer resemblance to the Cutty Sark and similar than to the Mikasa or Aurora.

 

Does being moored at a quay wall in Belfast during the second world war really count as active service ?

Bob

 

It was commissioned, ergo yes. It is a technicality though.

 

A commissioned ship is a commissioned ship. She was still doing a job, whether it was training, admin, accommodation or a drill hall. Plenty of people never fired a shot in anger or left the UK during WW2 but one wouldn't dismiss their time in uniform.