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Cold Carriages - a solution to cold starts?

Discussie in 'What's Going On' gestart door Sheff, 18 feb 2012.

  1. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    After all the recent talk of freezing carriages on tours, one problem highlighted was the lack of a means to pre-heat the stock. Back in the old days, carriage sidings had stationary boilers heating the stock overnight, but now the loco and stock are often not in the same location the day before.

    Clearly in the old days, with many rakes to heat, it paid to have boilers with an attendant boiler-man , but nowadays this isn't going to be cost effective This got me thinking, and I remembered a solution I had to a similar problem as our factories shrank and conventional boiler houses were shut down, but a need for a reduced amount of steam remained.

    The solution lay in a flash steam generator. These are vertical water coil tube units which can be run unmanned, and fired on a variety of fuels, from gas to diesel etc.

    A small skid mounted unit from Babcock would come in at about £25k. Not cheap but not stupid money either. You get ....

    VPX150RR quick response steam generator / oil fired / on/off burner
    Hotwell
    Priming pump
    Steam separator
    Blowdown tank
    Simplex water softener
    Simplex chemical dosing set

    If any of the coaching stock operators read this and want more info then please PM me. (I have no connection with the vendors).

    Iain
     
    Sheff, 18 feb 2012
    #1
  2. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    As fitted to many first generation diesel locos ... for carriage warming.
     
    Martin Perry, 19 feb 2012
    #2
  3. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Built by Stones or Spanner back then?
     
    Sheff, 19 feb 2012
    #3
  4. Oakfield

    Oakfield Guest

    Seems like a practical solution.
     
    Oakfield, 19 feb 2012
    #4
  5. acorb

    acorb Part of the furniture

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    Some complaints of a cold carriage yesterday on the train yesterday on the CME, then it magically warmed up after a party left the train at Blackburn...and shut the window!
     
    acorb, 19 feb 2012
    #5
    1 person likes this.
  6. Ben Vintage-Trains

    Ben Vintage-Trains Member

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    Make sure there are enough charging points available - steam heat isn't much use if the fans aren't running! And no - ETH doesn't charge the batteries or power the fans on Mk1 Pullmans and Mk2A/Z's - don't know about Mk3 or Mk4's - we don't have a lot of them around here.

    However, if anyone has a rake of Vac Mk3's I would love to get my hands on them! :lalala:
     
    Ben Vintage-Trains, 20 feb 2012
    #6
  7. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    There is always the problem in cold weather, no matter how much batteries are charged up, in temperatures below freezing, their available capacity is drastically reduced.


    Cold temperature increases the internal resistance and diminishes the capacity. Batteries that would provide 100 percent capacity at 27°C (80°F) will typically deliver only 50 percent at –18°C (0°F). The capacity decrease is linear with temperature.

    The performance of all battery chemistries drops drastically at low temperatures. At –20°C (–4°F) most nickel-, lead- and lithium-based batteries stop functioning. Although NiCd can go down to –40°C (-40°F), the permissible discharge is only 0.2C (5-hour rate). Specially built Li- ion brings the operating temperature down to –40°C, but only on discharge and at a reduced discharge. With lead acid we have the danger of the electrolyte freezing, which can crack the enclosure. Lead acid freezes more easily with a low charge when the specific gravity of the electrolyte is more like water.

    Taken from Discharging at High and Low Temperatures – Battery University
     
    RalphW, 20 feb 2012
    #7
  8. allison_p

    allison_p New Member

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    ETH Runs an motor alternator to charge the batteries and run the heater elemets under the coach on Mk.3 and later Mk.2 models. All very complicated, and gets messy when the batteries run flat!
     
    allison_p, 23 feb 2012
    #8

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