Glyn Valley decision due

While I do agree that maybe there should be a greater geographicaly spread of railways, I don't think there is an arguement that Welsh Railways will struggle

 

Not if the loadings last week on the WHR and today's first service trains on the FR (hauled by Lyd) are anything to go by...

 

Exactly, Wales is a pretty big place and people will holiday all over, going to the nearest railways. If you don't do a railway one year, you go back the next and do a different set. That's what we always did! Besides, Galas tend to generate the most money for heritage railways, and those attract more people. If well planned, they won't need to compete against eachother.

 

I think access is significant. People generally tend to holiday in certain areas and any attraction away from those places is going to suffer. Marketing may also play a part with that, especially the railway I'm thinking of...

 

Yes, it's strange that the mental idea of Wales varies according to where, in England, people live. To some it's just Rhyl & Prestatyn and to others it might equally be Snowdonia. The reality is that Wales is a small country that encompasses a great variety of beautiful scenery in all areas; even in the industrial south. The Glyn Valley, of which we are speaking, is an outstandingly attractive area in its own right and nothing at all like Snowdonia. Then again you have the Brecon Beacons National Park; The Dee Valley; The Pembrokeshire Coast National Park; the Gower Peninsular and the fine beaches of the south coast. I could go on but all are very different and worth visiting, with or without a railway.

Meic

 

The simple fact is that there are nowhere near as many people taking holidays in the area west of Machynlleth and Dolgellau as in the 1960-70's. The Talyllyn traffic figures have dropped as a result of this. The same problem doesn't apply to the F&WHR, due partly to improved access for day and weekend visitors to Snowdonia from the North West via the improved A55, and partly because there is much more for the enthusiast to see (particularly since the WHR was rebuilt). The W&L benefits from easier access for a day trip from the Midlands. As previously stated in this thread, the Tywyn area has always been a mainly static caravan holiday area, with very little high quality hotel or b&b accomodation. There really isn't much to see in the area that isn't better in other parts of Wales!
The TR has done much with innovative marketing in recent years ("Thomas" locos, family tickets, driver experiences,Victorian weeks, Race the Train, Santa etc.), but the passenger numbers have not improved significantly. From the enthusiast point of view, there is very little that can be done that's "new" (the track gauge sees to that!), but there have been loco livery changes, TRPS diamond jubilee celebrations and the recent visit by the new Corris loco.
Although it benefits from being at a university town which has much more "seaside" appeal, it would be interesting to know how well the VofR is doing.

 

I don’t know about any other railway but to the comments about the TR:

To be honest I think the reason for this is the warmer climes Spain, South of France etc. that have been drawing people away from these areas although the last few years haven’t been awful for passengers as the foreign tourist has been taking holidays in the UK as they have been cheaper. However the government and ever increasing Petrol Prices are putting pay to that...

our Coach Market is non-existent as there is NO hotel (that companies would put passengers in) North of Llandrindod or south of Criccieth the only tours that include the TR are GLTW tours the Corbett Arms Hotel is the only place in Tywyn that would handle the coach trade and the TR used to do very well from that

The "Duncan Days" are very popular and normally all trains are full. Driver experiences, Weddings and our 'Birthday Treat' events continue to grow year on year. Victorian weeks haven’t taken place for a few years now it used to be a joint event with Tywyn Council (I think) Race the Train in my opinion is a waste of a day in the Timetable.

As is mentioned above for the enthusiast Market the event has to be very special as there is very little we can do to make things 'new' so it’s not a surprise that most of our marketing Budget goes on attracting normal passengers with the families they bring to the railway.

cheers

AT

 

The glory of the pre-war Welsh narrow-gauge was its variety. No two lines were alike, either in terms of scenery or rolling stock - except when Palmerston went on its travels. Happily most of the original passenger lines exist in some form today, and visitors can get some idea of what each line was like in its heyday. The one glaring omission is the GVT. It was completely unique, not just in Wales but in Great Britain, and restoring a part of it fills a historical gap, just as rebuilding "Taliesin" or the Baldwin did. I would have little interest if someone proposed another narrow-gauge line on a standard-gauge trackbed, but recreating a part of the GVT, with the hope that one day a replica tram loco could be built to run on it, is a different matter entirely.

I think it unlikely that they will be able to extend further up the Ceiriog valley from Pontfaen, because much of the original roadside route has now disappeared under tarmac when the road has been widened, but I would love to be proved wrong. I never really thought I would ride behind a steam loco through the Aberglaslyn Pass, and having done that, I look forward to riding behind one down the bank from Chirk to Pontfaen.

Others have made the business case; in my view, if it can be done, the historical case for doing so is very strong indeed.

Incidentally, I would have thought that if suitable pairs of wheelsets could be provided, temporarily converting the surviving carriages to
2'6" for a visit home would not be a major exercise.

Richard

 

Spoken like a true enthusiast! A railway ride is a railway ride is a railway ride for the general public. The WHR is going to remain popular due to the views provided that the lineside does not overgrow and obscure them. I am sure one could see more out of the train during early FR revival BTW

A new GVT will not ever be the unique railway that the original was. Whatever 'business case' was made would not have taken into account the effect on existing railways of 'Yet another Welsh railway'.

 

'Yet another Welsh railway'

The GVT (and the WLLR) are a lot nearer to the SVR than to the F&WHR. I doubt that the average punter categorises railways as Welsh or English, but by how long it takes to drive to them.

The huge potential catchment area for railways close to the English border is of major benefit to them. It's railways out on a limb, like the F&WHR and the L&B that need to sell themselves as being worth the time, money and effort to visit.

 

How many railway related attractions are there in the South West? Taken from the HRA website (and a spot of memory):

West Somerset
South Devon
Paignton & Dartmouth
Launceston
Bodmin & Wenford
Helston
Lappa Valley
Plym Valley
Devon Railway Centre
Pecorama
Yeovil Railway Centre
Lynton and Lynmouth Cliff Railway
Babbacombe Cliff Railway
Lynton and Barnstaple

in other words, an awful lot! Yet I haven't heard criticism of the Lynton and Barnstaple for 'spreading the butter too thinly' in the area, as 'yet another' heritage railway - and as noted above, 'a railway ride is a railway ride is a railway ride for the general public' - the historical nature of the line and its importance cannot be taken into account in terms of attracting visitors. So in essence what I'm saying is, what is the difference between the fledgling GVT and the L&BR a decade ago?

 

a decade

 

Thank you Captain Obvious! :clap2:

Seriously though, you're criticising the GVT as 'yet another' heritage railway in Wales, and yet a decade ago the L&B was 'yet another' heritage railway in the South West which is similarly well-stocked for heritage railways - and the L&B doesn't seem to be having a problem with visitor numbers, and nor do the other lines!

 

Take a look at the distances between the attractions you quoted and compare with those in Wales.

You included two cliff railways, an extended model shop and a miniature railway.

 

Chirk - Llangollen : 7 miles
Woody Bay - Lynton (Cliff Railway) : 4 miles

Chirk - Welshpool : 21 miles
Woody Bay - Minehead : 21 miles

Chirk - Bala : 28 miles
Woody Bay - Devon Railway Centre : 35 miles

Not much different?

 

What has the Lynton Cliff railway got to do with it? It was always part of the rail transport system integrated with the L&B.

 

But it is another railway related heritage attraction. As you said, 'a railway ride is a railway ride is a railway ride to the general public'.

 

Maybe there should be an agreement to differ on this topic? Interminable tos-and-fros don't seem to be adding much light.
The proof of the pudding will doubtless be in the eating

 

You are also forgetting the standard gauge operations at Oswestry