NYMR Cash for Coal Appeal

BBC News - North Yorkshire Moors Railway appeal for coal

Soaring coal costs hit heritage railway (From The Northern Echo)

A CHARITY reeling from the soaring cost of fuel has turned to the public to keep it on the move.

The North York Moors Railway, which runs many steam services, has been hit by a doubling of coal costs over the past 5 years.

And the worrying jump has led to the launch of a new fund-raising campaign by the heritage railway - a registered charity - called Cash for Coal.

The railway uses around 2,500 tonnes of coal each year to fuel its steam engines on the picturesque 24-mile line between Pickering and Whitby.

"We've all seen the cost of operating a car increase - in the last five years, an average litre of diesel has risen from 97p in 2007 to £1.43 per litre today,” said general manager Philip Benham.

“That affects the diesel engines that we operate, but the difference in coal has been even more pronounced, doubling in price which massively increases our running costs.

"We're reluctant to put up fares to help cover these costs, so instead decided to ask for contributions to our Cash for Coal appeal."

The railway is able to claim back around 24p of tax per donated pound from donations made by UK taxpayers using the Gift Aid scheme, which will further help boost the coal bunker coffers.

It is hoped that the campaign will raise £350,000 towards the railway's fuel costs over the course of the year.

Donations can be made on the trains or at any of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway stations, or by texting COAL12 £1 to 70070 or online at justgiving.com/nymc

 

It struck me when visiting the Isle of Wight Steam Railway last November that operating trains of three well filled L.B.S.C. bogies hauled by an A1x (what a combination!) was not only pleasing to gricers but also very good business. Put the same number of passengers into "yer av'rage" heritage railway rake of four or five Mark 1s hauled often by a 4-6-2 and the line concerned would be lucky to make any money at all.

This is not aimed specifically at the NYMR but at steam railways in general. Fewer carriages hauled by smaller locomotives will keep costs down.

P.H.

 

I think there are very few heritige railways that you are going to see 5 mk1s behind a pacific. The lines that are running pacifics the Severn valley and the nymr are hauling trains of 8 coaches. The NYMR does have the problem of the fradients on the line which forces it to run larger locos they are not doing this by choice.
Also i would not liked to be squeezed in like sardines on a five coach train and that does not give the custommer the experiance they want so people will not return.
We all have to live with rising fuel cost and might need to accept that fare on heritige railways are going to have to increase.

 

It's surprising, and alarming, that one of the biggest preserved railways is asking for money to cover an operating cost. Most appeals for money are for expenditure on capital items like locomotives, coaches, stations, bridges etc rather than a day-to-day cost.

 

Sounds like an admission that the NYM business case has gone very badly wrong.

Roger

 

Surely if they can't cover the operating costs of the railway by selling tickets to travel behind the locos, then they are in the wrong business...

Will they be doing an appeal next to cover the cost of tea bags, as the price of a cup of tea doesnt cover this?!!

 

Could be a clever move by the Moors. Donations attract Gift Aid so every pound raised this way is worth more than a pound added to the price of a ticket. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

Both Coal and Gas Oil (Red Diesel) have trippled in unit cost in the past decade. For the NYMR, this has meant a fuel bill that has gone from under £200,000 in 2004 to over £ 1/2 million last year.

There is only one place this would normally come from - extra fares, but past experience has taught us that you have to be very careful with fare rises or you can lose numbers and end up no better off - that happened in the recession in the early 1990s. While I know many within the Railway feel our fares are too low, "correcting" that can only be done gradually and with both eyes firmly on what our visitors will see as our competitors - none of which are railways! Our main catchment areas are not necessarily the most affluent areas of the country, and the majority of visitors (and volunteers and even staff) are spending large sums on fuel to even get to the line.

By asking for voluntary fuel donations, potential passengers have 3 options - buy a ticket and make a donation, buy a ticket but don't make a donation or don't buy a ticket. Increase fares by more, and you only have options 1 and 3 and everyone loses out. The Gift Aid point is also valid, although a number of lines do claim Gift Aid on part or all of their fares - something we are looking at but there may be unforeseen consequences.

Response during limited operations to date when the Appeal has been in place has been very encouraging.

Steven Hogg
NYMR Finance Director

 

Without trying very hard I can think of a couple that regularly turn out locomotives of power classes 6, 7 or 8 to haul five coach trains. With line speeds of 25m.p.h. this is not very sensible and I remain to be convinced that any heritage railway needs anything larger than a 4MT, either in tank or tender forms.

I have seen footage of a 45xx hauling seven (or was it eight?) bogies up the Paignton and Kingswear, which has heavy sustained gradients. Undoubtably it had to be worked very hard but it did the job.

If significant numbers of heritage railways use this device to get extra revenue via the taxman then I would predict this concession will be withdrawn. This would not be very good news to those organisations who are prudent with their revenue expenditure and use the tax rebate to facilitate capital projects.

P.H.

 

LHJC 29, 6619, and 65894 were used to operate off peak services in the past, none of which are available.

Time keeping was also a problem with tank engines, due to taking water at each end.

80072 is probably going to be the smallest loco on the line this year with 69023 confined to shuttle trains at galas etc.

Come back 80135

 

Unless you're regularly carrying upwards of 300 persons on any one train, use a Small Prairie or similar tank loco and you will end up with at least £200 a day on your Bottom Line in saved coal and water alone, compared with any 'Tender Loco'. 200 days = £40k saved. You know it makes sence!

John

 

Using a smaller loco makes sense but there are several key issues :

1. Very few tank sized locos around that are available
2. Trying to know the number of patrons using the services. Weather has a key impact and the North York Moors is known to change conditions very rapidly. You can't just add coaches to the smaller engines like you would with a larger tender engine that is normally running underutilized. There is the slight issue of the Grosmont to Goathland bank ruling out any smaller tank engines unless coach numbers are severely reduced.
3. Railways like NYMR are known for their show of big tender engines. Pictures at Grosmont regularly feature three tender locos in the station at one time.

The 4MT tanks are ideal. Whilst being efficient runners they also look like a big powerful mainline engine. Smaller tank engines do look like branch engines, GWR prairies look like powerful branch line runners but not necessarily what people would perceive as mainline engines.

Just my tuppence worth!

 

Running smaller locos on heavier loads means they have to be worked harder and thus possibly incur greater maintenance costs. Running larger locos may mean higher field costs but potential savings on maintenance costs owing to them being worked easier. Not an easy answer to the problem.

 

Ifthe current economic climate continues it will slowly start to have an impact on passengers figures. Its not only the cost of the ticket, its the getting there as well now. The NYMR also have a problem in that locomotives of a certain size are required for peak season services, this now moves us into a wider picture in that engines are now working harder than ever before but arnt getting any younger. A lot of locos that came into traffic in the 70's/80's are now needing major overhauls costing ever more money. To prove my point you only have to look at the SVR's overhaul queue. Its nice to hear the engines being worked, but this does not help preserve the engine. I'm afraid that over the next few years the numbers of locomotives availalbe to Heritage lines will only be going down. You try hiring any engine for a season now adays. there arnt many about- too many railways chasing too few locos.

 

The answer to the problem could well be under construction at Bridgnorth. My Lords, I give you 82045! (and it would be a "correct" type for the NYMR!)

 

But, wouldn't be up to the job, alas, unless loads were reduced. Can loads be reduced? This might be possible on the days when the NYMR doesn't run to Whitby but such trains regularly load to 400+ people and its a bit of a squash packing them into 7 coaches. Joe Public on holiday doesn't want to be crammed next to persons unknown for 1.5 hours, they like a bit of space so loadings greater than 505 shouldn't be the norm.

When it comes to dragging an 8 coach diner around, this is really getting into class 6 territory if you want the comfort of being able to re-start the train on the worst bits of Goathland bank.

 

From what i have read 72010 would be close to perfect for the NYMR to deal with the heavier trains having travelled on the diner its not a train for anything less than a class 5

 

You will have saved money but the income will have been reduced as you will of carried 30% less passengers and those who have travelled might not return if they been crammed in or have to stand. I imagine that 5 coaches be the max up the bank for a small praire they are limited i think to 7 on the SVR which is far less steep and the banks are shorter.
There are more suitable and economic loco that could do the job but they are not serviceable one stuck in York railway museum with no hope it seems over ever running again soon.

 

This is probably a rubbish idea, however I do think could you put a heritage diesel on the back. You could use smaller steam loco's with as many coaches or even the larger loco's not working as hard. Just an idea I don't know much about this haha. Just seems to me a sensible option right now as the public I don't think would mind! Prefer it to getting the sardine treatment. Regards Tom

 

4566 is limited to 6 mk1's on the valley, and is permitted 7 with lms, lner & gw coaching stock as all are lighter than the mk1's.