Cumbrian Mountain Express (Summer 2012)

I hope that the Railway Herald is wrong about Black 5 5305 taking most of this Summers Cumbrian Mountain Expresses Trains. 6233, 70013 being in Crewe. Possibly 60009.

Getting a chance at taking one of Cumbrian Tours behind 6233 has been recommended to me and to see that it be possibly running just one or none is not fair.

I just hope I'm letting the cat out of the bag.

 

5305 currently has no Cumbrian Mountain expresses allocated to it the work is being shared between the 3 pacifics
I believe 5305 is working all the Mersey Moorlanders and is being kept at Carnforth

60009 is barred from Scarborough duer to weight restictions on the river bridge at York
46223 Can no longer reach Holyhead via Frodsham due to restrictions on the gauge issue
only 70013 can go on all trains in the Crewe pool roster

ND

 

Network Rail shine again! I would have thought that Scarborough would have been a major plank in the NRM ideas for 4472, but if an A4 can't go to Scarborough!!!

And now a Duchess can't get to Chester from Warrington - obviously the RT1 contract and statutory obligations mean nothing. You couldn't write it! Can nobody hold these incompetents to account?

 

46233 is scheduled to go to Scarborough with VT in summer, surely a Duchess is heavier than an A4 ?.

Scarb should certainly be sorted out pronto as that is what i'd consider a 'core' steam repeat itinery route,

 

Thank you guys booking a Cumbrian Mountain Express is going to be much easier now.

 

I personally wouldn't mind a single headed black 5 run on the CME, I've had double headed and 5305 is a worthy opponent! And seeing as it seems to be in a fit state of running then it would be a good run. didn't 5305 work a few CME's last year?
Unbelievable that all of these restrictions are now in place! I'm hoping to do one of the NWCE's from Stockport in July, but I guess I can throw the duchess out of that bag!
Matt

 

According to Wikipedia you're right, so where does that leave the "Duchess"?

 

Does the stock normally turn at Carlisle or go back in reverse formation to outward?

John

 

Hello Nigel.

Not aware of anybody's trains being allocasted on specific weeks in the summer yet so not going to speculate what will go where and when but my TOC paperwork for the Monday jobs shows 3 loco owners involved in the Carnforth pool being used on the Mondays so its a bit early to say how many weeks, if any, 5305 will do although its been a good solid performer over the last year so I've a lot of time for it up until now if it does come out on a train. 5305 will however being most likely taking us to York next month on a job from Lancashire.

 

No way! Gauge restrictions, weight limits, i dont remember those ever happening in the past. I can only presume NR have started thinking that such problems cant be fixed with a wave of the hand, and when the only rolling stock restricted is certain types of large steam engine it isnt a high enough priority to demand immediate rectification.

It doesnt matter that they will almost certainly be dealt with much more cost effectively as part of NR's wider programme of works, this kind of thing only seems to affect steam engines... and the UK's largest freight operator who had to hire a fleet of 20's for leafbusting because NR decided 66's were no longer in gauge under a few of their bridges - do they seriously expect charter operators to do the same, running their trains with one of the many steam loco's that can be used in the meantime?

Clearly someone needs to write to DBS and remind them of NR's commitment to keep all track at exactly the same line and level at all times - regardless of how neccesary, costly, disruptive or even practical doing that is. After all, when NR finally realise how important charters using large loco's are for the billion-plus non-charter passengers using the railway network each year, and have to keep the network maintained to allow them at all times at a massively disproportionate cost, we can look forward to Network Rail becoming openly anti-steam - just imagine what another event like the ECML fiasco could do in such circumstances.

...of course we could keep things in perspective instead, and acknowledge that track moves and bridges suffer weight restrictions - dealing with it, especially when its not scheduled work, costs money and can cause disruption which Network Rail try to minimise while still allowing trains to run. Complaining about this compromise can only have one long term affect - the loss of the same goodwill in NR that means massive disruption to a major mainline can be solved by a conversation rather than an indefinate ban.

I dont know about anyone else, but i'd prefer to keep the goodwill personally...

Chris

 

NR certainly need a boot up the backside, it's not so bad when you have problem trying to go to some obscure destination as you half expect them, but at a time when Promoters are struggling to get workable itineries that make a profit, the last thing needed is some of the most popular destinations and core steam routes being ruled out, it might only be Scarborough at the moment, but what if the likes of Stratford on Avon & Paignton join it on the 'too difficult' list ?.

Get your house in order NR, if you continue to balls up popular destinations then soon you'll have sod all tour promoters left.

WCRC & DBS ought to issue a joint complaint to NR that their service is not good enough, similar to the objections on York Triangle.

 

No one has said the route's have been 'ruled out' for steam traction, but operators have less choice about what loco's they use - nothing unusual about that and i see no reason to think they wont both be sorted out in due course either.

Chris

 

The way this thread is directing we should be glad that such a range of the locomotives are able to operate to Carlisle.

Having ground level platforms along the mainline would make a difference. Quite a bit of infrastructure change would need to be changed. A million arms and legs.

 

The problem is Chris, that a lot of the smaller Loco's that are light enough will be limited to 60, where does that leave you if pathing dictates 75MPH capability on another leg of the tour ?, supposing before heading off to Scarborough your reaching York via the ECML or the MML between Birmingham & South Yorkshire.

 

There should be enough warning for operator's to line up suitable loco's, though there have been enough substitutions over the years by 60mph Black 5's to show that such a limit is rarely a problem with today's start-stop schedules. Its hard to say anything elseh though without more details - it would be nice to find out precisely what the weight limit is, what loco's will be affected, when it may be sorted and whether any exceptions can be made in the meantime.

Chris

 

I believe with the loadings on the "Scarborough Flyer" a Class 7 or 8 is required.

 

Is 5305 remaining at the Great Central? Is the 5mt being transported by truck?

Railway Herald railtours page has 46233 not only listed for Scarborough this Friday but also for the 1st Cumbrian Mountain Express. That would be a great way to kick off this years Summer series of CME's.

Really though what is going to show up?