New builds - how many will ever really work?

Ahh. Sometimes I forget that the signature is there. Haven't updated it since I joined NP.

Agree wholeheartedly regarding the poor representation that the LNWR has in preservation, particularly when a Claughton, Presursor and Prince of Wales were so close to being preserved in 1949. The LNWR was arguably as important the GWR given it's size, and that it's own constituents were some of the first railways in the world; the London and Birmingham being the first intercity connection into London for instance. The George the Fifths were by all accounts fine engines and as powerful as a Churchward 4-6-0 of the time. Let's see what happens there but the reason I've been helping out is that I consider it has all the makings of an ideal new-build candidate (a good mixture of heart and head in the decision).

 

Anyway, I won't say any more about it but nicely spotted Neil. A wonderful collection of photos you have there by the way. I could spend hours browsing them!

 

I think your reticence is to be commended; I look forward to hearing more about this project when the official launch happens.

Thank you for your comments, it's a pleasure to go out photographing steam in the 21st century.

 

Thanks Neil. I think the men behind it would rather it be that way; from my many conversations with them can say they're not inclined to go about 'blowing their own trumpets' - they certainly want to ensure that the groundwork has been done before any real publicity.

 

So no Facebook page soon then???

 

I think they consider it to be a fairly low priority.

 

Thought it was mandatory for a new-build scheme to have a Facebook page!

 

No - there has been a change in the order of doing things - you must now decide on a livery before setting up the Facebook page....:smile:


Keith

 

I believe the authorised project plan runs:

1) Buy Bachman catalogue
2) Choose obscure prototype not ideally suited to either mainline or heritage operation
3) Choose livery
4) Choose name, based on a tenuous link to a relative who used to work in an unrelated field
5) Set up Facebook page
6) Get a bit bored
7) Buy Hornby catalogue
8) Lose half your membership who decide to go through parallel steps 2,3,5,6 on a Hornby prototype
9) Suddenly realise there are alternate engines with the same class name and ponder whether they would be a better bet instead
10) Set up another Facebook page
11) Claim it was all just testing the water and plans are still being developed

I may have missed out a few splits and sub-groups along the way ...

Tom

 

Just a reminder of what was lost - from Meccano Magazine October 1949, sorry about the quality, they had very poor paper in those days.

Dave

 

Oh how very funny! I bet you were lolling away to yourself as you wrote this little post.

You all think you are so very funny and clever having a go at the young ones who just want to be a part of heritage railways, what you are all forgetting is that heritage railways need young people, and all the 'clever' comments and snipes at them could end up pushing them away.

Yes some (1or 2 in particular) have gone about it in the wrong way, but it is now becoming tantamount to bullying the way you all keep harping on about facebook pages, liveries, catalogues etc.

 

Oh please. What damage? A few dozen people arguing on a railway forum? A few railway magazines complaining about facebook pages?

The wider general public won't be party to this. What they will see is Tornado, and a whole host of real new builds in various stages of completion. If some older railway enthusiasts get all uptight about new builds because of these Facebook groups, more fool them because there's a whole host of serious new builds in various stages of completion they should be concentrating on.

Railway Preservation as a whole needs to educate more thoroughly to the younger, enthusiastic generation as what is necessary to build a steam locomotive or run a railway.

Some groups are doing sterling jobs with this ideal, but it's not wide spread enough and it certainly can't be found in great detail on the Internet - which, like it or lump it, is the best source of information and communication. I don't think we'd see anywhere near the number of facebook groups if the people in question making them had an outlet or project which would involve them, and take them seriously, but there you go.

[/broken record]

 

Sidmouth I do appreciate that a lot of damage has been done, but bringing it up again and again on this thread that can't be helpful either can it?

Surely it would be best to let it all die a natural death now?Or are you as a moderator of this board condoning this behaviour?

 

Well said Simon. I doubt any real damage has been done to the new build genre by the actions of the J39 et al 'groups'.

Anyone with a degree of experience in following new build projects and being involved with them could see that these weren't groups that were very serious about building a new locomotive. Nothing about their actions suggested that the plans had got passed choosing a locomotive and dealing with the serious issues of building a steam engine.

No damage done, nothing to get uptight about.

 

Many years ago there were many 'mad' schemes about buying steam engines from Barry or elsewhere and returning them to operation. The locos you see today are the results of those efforts. The ones you see today are the ones that survived.
The ones that made it through to the end put up with people telling them that it could not be done, faced the challenges, raised the money, had the luck, appealed to the public etc.
These were the ones that people wanted to see and felt strong about, strong enough to dedicate hours and money to the job. These were organised and got the right people in the right jobs.

Then there were the ones that failed. The ones that could not raise the money, lacked appeal, skills, organisation etc. You could make a long list of the ones that fell along the journey.

So with new build schemes, there are those which will reach a conclusion because they have the right combinations. Then there will be those that fail. But in the case of new build the price in money and dedication will be much higher.

So let's see which groups are still here in 1 year, 5 years and 20 years and judge them on what they have achieved.

 

Should it be built I'm fairly certain the livery will be black.

 

Thanks for sharing that. A tragic reminder of what could've been. I understand that we only have the only have the Webb Coal Tank because the Bangor shedmaster hid it away.

 

That was the J39 group and said many months ago!!why bring it up now?!!

Agree it was misguided of them to say they would have a copper boiler but do you know people do make mistakes! and if they are clever they also learn from them.

 

I don't disagree with this however I would say that some of the more serious proposals, which have considerable hurdles in of themselves perhaps face the risk of being tarred with the same brush when trying to garner support and funding. People become somewhat inured to new-builds in general in spite of their individual merits and the seriousness of intent behind the project. A case of the 'boy who cried wolf' one too many times. I will of course say, that seeing one or two more new-builds steam soon could well provide the serious proposals with greater momentum.

(and we can't forget The Lynton & Banrstaple replice 'LYD' which was completed soon after 'Tornado' - another new-build chalked up on the ledger.)