New builds - how many will ever really work?

Yes. The G5 is financed as a government business expansion scheme company. This has valuable tax breaks as againsta conventional company and if you can find a group of people who can each put in significant capital then it is an attractive route (the Moorlands and City Railway is being financed in the same way).
Alternatively the company limited by guarantee but with charitable status is attractive in that it permits contributions to be gift aided (hence the government ends up paying part of the cost of the project) -and this is fine for regular subscribers, the Tornado, 82045 etc. model.
Given that people with memories of steam are often quite ancient I am also surprised not to see groups pursuing potential legacies (and the associated tax break available for the estate of the deceased where the group has charitable status) being discussed in these pages. More groups will succeed if they are businesslike in the way they go about things.

 

So, an LNER V3 in Southern Railway livery - interesting!

Who do I address my cheque to - I'll fund anything in Southern Green...

Tom

 

ahem don't forget its got a copper boiler under that malachite green!

 

So no need to paint it then - just let the copper turn green naturally And think how much they'll save on all that cladding and insulation too

 

They may be on to something that we more experienced chaps haven't thought about, here. Copper forms a layer of verdigris under appropriate conditions and verdigris is malachite in colour. Having an unlagged copper boiler will turn malachite in colour, saving the task of having to paint it if they choose SR livery. That's thinking outside the box!

 

Disclaimer : I have nothing to do with the V3 project, these are just some ramblings !

Without knowing who is behind the V3 I'm reluctant to fob it off as folly. There have been a number claims of new builds of late from various 'groups' unfortunately this seems to have muddied the water against the genuine projects and genuine planned projects. For all we know at this point it could be a multi-millionaire (need to be to build a new loco).

Let us not forget that the A1 trust were written off in the very early days and right up to her first steaming some professionals still claimed the loco would never run.

This idea of it being wrong to create websites, facebook pages and declaring liveries at the outset... would anyone buy a car without
a) seeing it,
b) knowing what colour it is,
c) knowing who is selling it

You need to promote what you are considering for a project and you need to gauge an interest in supporters, potential operators etc

Likewise would you build a loco without
a) researching where it could be used
b) researching how popular it would be
c) researching where funding would be obtained from
d) researching what popular classes and liveries people wanted.

You have to test the water (which is stated on the V3 facebook page as what they are currently doing) before spending vast sums of money, and even the smallest of locos would cost circa £750k +. There is as much a need for new tank engines for future preserved railway use as there is for large tender locos for mainline use. My preference is BR Standards as you will see from my signature, others will have a preference for tank engines and some won't care what it is as long as it has no diesel engine or electric motors!

What new groups shouldn't do is proclaim they are going to do this, this and this without having something to show for it. A loco only exists when the frames are cut right back to BR and pre-grouping days.

Another tuppence from deepest / darkest Sheffield!

 

Dave that's all very worthy and true, and I'd liked very much like to see a V3 re-incarnated - a very suitable loco for heritage lines and you can't have too much Apple Green in my book. But any new group needs to establish some credibility from the outset if they expect people to take them seriously and express an interest in their pet project. Poor grammar and punctuation allied to a ridiculous paint scheme leave you dead in the water I'm afraid.

 

I agree, even if the new 'group' doesn't have the financial resources to start they should at least have relevant experience in engineering, design or loco operations. There's are very valid sayings that are apt here "it's not necessarily what you know but who you know" and also "discretion is the better part of valour". In the case of the later, keep discrete and find the lay of the land first and please research before stating that she will be finished in her SR green livery. V3's never ventured 'down sarf'! And a boiler made of copper... in 5" or 7.25" yes, 12" to the foot... erm :nono:! I think Mr Woodham et al would have rather cut up copper boilers than wagons some how!

Imagine the security needed for a pacific boiler made of copper... Mr Pikkie to Mrs Pikkie... 'ere Mable distract that guard, show em yer legs, I'll get the boiler while they're not looking' ound:

 

Yes, theoretically that's true. For all we know, there could be a hedge fund manager in deepest darkest Mayfair with a yearning to see an LNER V3 running on the mainline, complete with SR livery and copper firebox and a desire to hand over some cash before the limit on tax relief on charitable donations bites. Maybe.

But the real point is that all such projects need credibility, and that has to be earned. If you are associated with a major heritage centre with a track record of engineering skill; if you have some major component as a starting point; if you have a credible plan to overcome the legal, compliance, financial and technical hurdles, it all helps give credibility to the group and confidence to the man or woman in the street considering getting out their chequebook. The problem with the confusing morass that surrounds the J39 / V3 / L1(LNER variant) / L1 (SR variant) projects is that they don't have any of the above. So their baseline for gaining credibility is at a pretty low level, which means they have to work much harder just to get to the level that projects like Beachy Head, the Patriot or the GW 47xx started at - never mind where those projects are now. With hard work they could gain that credibility - but it doesn't help if the major deliverable so far is just a confusing series of project proposals on facebook.

Tom

 

The A1 Trust have a legacy giving scheme up and running.

 

As do the patriot project. In fact we recently received our first bereavement donation back in December. Its a sad way to receive the money but I suppose at least they know there helping to building it.

Gavin

 

This is quite a thoughtful piece which touches on a number of issues.
In an ideal world lots of us would love to see all sorts of things re-created, and while we are about it what about a Maunsell D1 rather than an L1?
But we all face the question, in the present situation what are the limits of the practical?
If we are to avoid a repeat of something like the railway mania of 1846 everybody needs to take a close look at reality.
Would be groups can easily be helped with the legal formalities and engineering issues can be overcome if the fundamental issue can be dealt with, and the fundamental issue is money. In particular everybody has to think about how money can be raised from generations which did not have first hand experience of everyday steam -the younger world talks to itself electronically so maybe we need to learn how facebook and the like can be effectively used for our objectives.

 

Strikes me that the best thing to do is to either amass or win a personal fortune first, the rest becomes a little easier after that.

 

Quite. Those planning a new build might wish to spend the first year or two buying Premium Bonds.......then when they have won a million they could advertise for people willing to cough up the other half of the likely cost.

 

And if my euromillions rollover win ever comes through, i think i might have someone build me a loco, unsure whether to go for an original conditon GNR Gresley A1, a B17 or a GWR 54xx......

 

And knowing something about the construction of steam locomotives and who originally built them would be a good start.

Seems as if the people proposing these locos are just wanting to be project managers of something steam railway based.

A bit like the real world nowadays - everyone wants to be a chief, so there's no one to get the work done....


Eh maybe that's the way to go, get the drawings organised and sub the construction work out to the far east....:tape:

 

Isn't everything else made in the Far East these days. I notice Great Northern Steam (who do traction engine work and the like) are farming work out to North India. If they could do it to the right quality to satisfy VAB requirements...maybe one day??

 

If the material spec can be guarenteed to meet what is needed then getting something pressed and returned to the uk for assembly might be the way to go, but im not sure if anyone would trust any presure vessel work done in India or anywhere in the far east without having regular inspections of the assembly and a full insurance inspection before delivery not because the people out there cant do it, but because you are working with too many unknowns the material might not be what you paid for, and all the other things that can go wrong and lets face it, in the far east, where costs are cheeper, there is more scope for problems that could turn out to be very expensive to put right if done wrong to start with