New Build Night Owl - 4709 Begins

Thank you for the update.

I always wanted to see the might of a 47XX, but thought there was no chance in this happening. Here I can see already a locomotive taking shape. Having the front buffer beam will show progress to the 'general' public.

With the 3 new builds now being assembled in the shed, its getting to look like Swindon!

I notice 4141 in the background.

 

And 5199 cheekily sneaking in there too!

Impressive site of 4709 though. Could well be one of the highlights of SSS3 lol

 

Thought that was 5199 with the fresh black paint, and with the cylinder cladding still showing the lining.

 

Just found a website for 4709. Early stages but website is still quite good IMO.

 

One of the great things about Nat Pres is that, by visiting this site, one's knowledge of matters railway is always improved. I thought I knew a little bit about GWR history including its locos and rolling stock but I had no idea that the 47xxs were issued with new boilers in the 1950s and that the class were considered to be good enough to spend that sort of money on them relatively late in the day so to speak. It reinforces the knowledge that I already had that this small class of large fast-goods locomotive was of considerable value to the Railway but I was unaware just how valuable. I was aware of the connection with 111 "The Great Bear" and a full-size replica would be awesome but I think we'll leave it there for now.

One of the bad things about Nat Pres is that it is perfectly possible and all too easy to comment on a new-build project in a totally dismissive fashion without doing one's homework only to be made to look a total prat when large chunks of metal and a well -organised team appear! If I had a hat to hand, I would now be eating it after seeing the photo of the 47xx frames and ex-4115 extension frames at Llangollen. However, to misquote Woody Allen, as bad experiences go, its one of the better ones!

I look forward to seeing the 47xx, the Patriot and Betton Grange at Llangollen when I visit for SSS3 at the end of April. I'll leave my hat at home!

 

I suppose I am being a bit picky, but the website linked above talks about a "Rebuild", which this clearly is not!

In fact there is rather more information on the Didcot latest news section: Didcot Railway Centre | News | Latest News and interestingly mentions the three main "donor" engines, namely 4115, 5227, and 2861. I assume by the way that this loco will require a new boiler and firebox, but please correct me if that is not so.

Edit: Sorry, the Didcot website is linked from the first post on this topic, eleven pages back! But I'll leave it here anyway.

 

Could do with a simple domain name to aid recognition.

 

Why were there only 10 built?

 

The boiler design was unique to the 47XX. So 9 for 4700-4708 and 1x spare.

Thought I'd forgotten something... I blame my broken wrist lol

 

Sorry I meant why were only 10 engines ever built?

 

Well, only 9 were built originally (4700 to 4708) but we've had to wait until 2012 to get 4709!
Oh, I see, you mean why did the GWR only build 9 locos plus 1 spare boiler? I don't know. I would guess that the limited route availability of this type meant that not many were authorised by the Operating Department. I'm sure someone will know the accurate answer.

 

Cook (head of the works at the time) states that the operating department wanted more 47s in the 1930s, but Collett decided to build some more Castles instead. The rationale was that although the Castles were more expensive they could do more with fast passenger duties (and presumably nearly everything the 47s could do with fast freight, having more power but less adhesive weight), so would give more flexibility.

The spare boiler was because GWR policy was to have at least one spare boiler for every class so that an engine coming into the shops which required a boiler change would have one waiting for it, rather than to sit around idle waiting for its own boiler to be repaired. Cook says that with the 47s it took a bit of care to make sure they never had two needing to come into the works for boiler repairs at the same time.

OK, here's a little bit of tongue in cheek: to be properly authentic should 4709 have the side window cab she would undoubtedly have sported had Collett built more 47s in the 1930s instead of the Castles? And I wonder if it would be possible to find the drawings for the screw reverse that AE Durrant designed for the 47s in the mid 50s?

 

Were any Castles diagrammed regularly for freight workings?

 

Castles were regularly used on fast trains carrying perishables such as milk and fish, although technically milk tanks were coaching stock vehicles rather than freight wagons.

 

Please excuse my ignorance on this (I have spent far more years being interested in LMS locomotives than GWR), but is there a link to any information on just how the Group building 4709 has overcome the problem of the different radius of the 28xx smokebox saddle being used?

I must admit, I am pretty interested in the 4709 project, and wish the team creating it well.


Richard.

 

The engineering update you mentioned regarding the cab and screw reverse reminded me of our trips to the NRM to catalogue the the GWR drawings.
I do recall coming across the drawings for this modification although never carried out.
Maybe it could be done one day

 

Not 100% sure but from what i understand it looks to be possible to remove the top section of cylinderblock/saddle then fabricate a new section with the correct radius and attach it.
still cheaper than building a completly new cylinder block

 

Like Richard Roper, I dont know much about Great Western engines, but I am aware of the element of commonality of parts, so my question is this: Is there a donor boiler/firebox out there, or is that the big ticket item, ie new build boiler/firebox?

Thanks in anticipation.

46118

 

Having outside steam pipes certainly helps. Perhaps possible to fabricate rather than cast a new part of the saddle?