VT - 5043 to Edinburgh - 26/27/28 May

This should be the Anthem for the Network Rail Charter Dept from here on in: Circus Theme music - YouTube

 

However unreasonable it may seem, NR planners have a set of clear and concise planning rules, to which they must work, in order to produce a set of achievable times, which, in turn, do not conflict with or impact upon other operators or route openings and engineering works - the planners are also under a 'performance regime' (as part of NR -not just the operators), so, unlike BR days, when it was all one happy family, they cannot bend the rules, else financial penalites apply and heads will roll.

As has been said on here, many, many times, charters access the network under a 'right to bid' agreement, which means, in general, there are no firm contractual rights to paths ('The Jacobite' and some DBS 'Q' paths are different), and the charter will be thread through what's left. Charter promoters (RTC, SD, VT etc) can 'guesstimate' paths, to varying degrees of accuracy, which they will use as starting point from promotional activities and requests to us or one of the other TOCs, who will formulate a bid request to NR.

The planners will always genuinely try to find the nearest requested path (and refer to previous ops, where relevant - I have submitted over 2500 'one-off' bids for WCR alone, in the last ten years) but, when one considers the ever-increasing demands for more and faster paths from the franchised TOCs, freight paths (which don't always run) and a considerably less flexible railway, it becomes more and more difficult. Add to that, in this particular case, congestion at Waverley and the restricted number of lines into the station itself, which cleared for steam, being held at Abington becomes inevitable. Promoters can scream and shout as much as they like (and we will support them, whenever possible) but, at the end of the day, as Bernard used to say, it's not their call, it's NR's.

Of course, on the day, something might not run or be out of path, so a gap appears and, suddenly, deep joy, an early arrival (or not)!

JS

 

I was planning to drive home ( a 3 hour drive) but booked a Premier in Shirley just in case.Will be an early start the following day to drive to work.

Beattock south bound - it not as steep or as long as Northbound. Steam usually stops at Abington.


Network Rail is taking the **** over these timings. Looks like I will be avoiding multi days tours until Network Rail gets their act together!

 

Afraid that explanation won't help with some people James who see arrivals 3 or 4 hours after what was originally advertised, totally scuppering onwards travel and arrangements and will vow 'never again' and put promoters futures at risk through low future bookings as a resuly, I myself as a hardened enthusiast are now considering never doing a multi day tour again if this is the sort of mess I can expect.

We don't expect actual timings to be exactly the same as the provisional ones, but 3 or 4 hours differences means someone somewhere has clearly goofed and big time, im trying to get family and friends on these VT trips to boost their coffers and make sure they run, NR have just ruined all my efforts from what im hearing on this basis.

 

The timings are awful!!! ohwell still going to make the most of it Coach F 13F&14F, see you all there!

 

The question that James has not addressed is why the huge disparity between anticipated and actual timings was not known until literally a few days before departure. Why could Network Rail not have prepared timings 3 months ago? Do they not know what trains will be running on the network more than a few days in advance? I hardly think so. With sufficient advance notice of a major pathing issue, the tour promoter would have the option to scotch the trip, or to continue with it but allow those booked on it to cancel. I still think Network Rail have a lot of explaining to do.

The levels of stress that this sort of fiasco must impose on the Vintage Trains and WCRC teams organising the tour must be beyond belief.

I am absolutely incandescent over this. What promised to be an excellent trip with a Saturday evening in Edinburgh and return to Crewe on Monday at a reasonable hour (I have a long journey home) is now looking like something of an endurance test, particularly for those joining at Tyseley (not to mention the VT and WCRC staff). As a 'crank', I will grin and bear it in order to be part of this historic groundbreaking trip, but I now am regretting having invited my 'normal' partner. If it runs as scheduled, I can't see her being persuaded to come on any further trips!

I am hoping against hope that something can be pulled out of the hat on the day to improve on the schedule.

By the way, for anyone on the trip wondering how to while away the time at the Abington water/pathing stop on the outward journey without gnawing their table in frustration, I can highly recommend purchase of a copy of the '5043 - Return of a Legend' book. It is a superb publication and well worth ten quid in aid of a good cause (7029 restoration) - I am assuming copies will be available on the train.

Nick M.

 

Edit: Leviathan has pretty much covered my point.

 

Pretty much covered it for me too, I have a drive back to Mid Wales Monday night and work the following morning. My response when I saw Monday's times used similar language to david1984's... I was really relying on a decent finish on the Monday.. There is going to have to be a few rabbits out of hats on this tour. I still can't get my head around why this is taking such a long time, there are a number of 75mph and 60mph limited freights around the network including the West Coast, steam shouldn't be anymore difficult to path (& I've heard that from a employee who works in NR timetabling). And if it was going to be so difficult then more than 4 days notice should have been given, as I mentioned earlier this tour has been proposed for more than a year. Perhaps improving on these timings will become the big theme of the weekend and will result in some decent performance? Lets hope..

 

Having now read the Cath ex thread I am now a little worried.. Also it would appear the dreaded lineside fire has also reared it's ugly head today.

 

In addition to the pubs already recommended I would suggest the Guildford Arms in West Register St.The Guildford, Edinburgh, Great real ale, 10 hand pull pumps, Gastro food, classic Victorian bar, opposite Balmoral hotel, gallery restaurant, 0131 556 4312

Unfortunately only serves food until 9.00 pm on Saturday so hope for an early arrival,although open until midnight. If you leave Waverley by the stairs from Platform 19 up to Princes St (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/docume... Maps/4499_Edinburgh Waverley Station Map.pdf)
West Register St is to the left of Register House which is facing you. Excellent real ales and food.

 

I been there on my last two visit to Edinburgh and agree with your comments.I was planning to go again until I saw the arrival time.

 

Can someone explain to me how the Sunday circular tour works, please? When the train arrives at Inverkeithing for the second time, it goes into Inverkeithing goods yard for about half an hour. Does 5043 run round and haul the train back across the bridge tender first? Or will there be a diesel to tow it back? Or can 5043 turn in the yard (on a triangle)?? Thanks...

 

How long has there been to plan this tour? - somewhat in excess of a week I'm sure. I really feel for the people on this one. Railtouring has become more like railboring recently unless you are a fan of both midsummer departures and arrivals in the hours of darkness, and many hours between sitting in loops.

James' points about planning on the network are perfectly valid - but at the end of the day, when even the faithful are up in arms about timings, and inconvenience, it will prove ever more difficult to tempt the money out of customers' pockets if the enjoyment factor is gone. And for some its not just enjoyment either - many of the clientele are simply not up to eighteen hour days any more - and cannot book for that reason alone - but is that of any interest or importance to Miss Rachel & Co?

 

The diesel is scheduled to join the rear of the train at Inverkeithing yard to drag the entire consist back over the Forth Bridge for a third time, stopping at Linlithgow (again) and then onto the Bo'Ness railway.

The passengers have the choice of getting off at Linlithgow at either 18:22 or 20:24. There are plently of service trains for either time.

 

UK Steam says we stop at Dalmeny on the rtn. Can we alight there too?

 

The Cathedrals Explorer was stated to halt for a few minutes in the goods loop. These timings merely say "Dalmeny" so it may well mean the station

 

If everything runs to time the Duchess should pass the Castle in Penrith station