VT - 5043 to Edinburgh - 26/27/28 May

We last saw the train at Leyland where it was checked behind a local. When the peg cleared all we could hear on the platform was the 37 throttling up. Then the coaches went slowly by and it was plain to see that there weren't many left on board. It all tells a tale.

Surely this is the first time a steam special has been topped and tailed by diesels. Let's hope its the last!

And as for smart ersed comments about you paid for the trip and you got a trip - its the Fleetwood Mac or Take That argument - and the trainspotters seem firmly lined up behind Take That being dished out by the money takers on the end of this bargain. Someone seems to be forgetting the money payers at this end. They have a choice, and it won't be to be treated like this again. They aren't even back at Tyseley as I write.

 

15th December 2011, 4464 Norwich to York, ran with top and tail 47s.

 

A real shame how this has turned out and feel sorry for the passengers involved along with VT as well.

One question, apologies if I'm wrong but no one seems to have commented on how hard 46233 or 5043 were being worked over Shap.

46233 seemed to be taking a steady approach where as 5043 seemed to be "going for it" so it seems that going by the visual evidence that's been posted on You Tube, 5043 looks more than likely to be the cause of the fires.

I'm sure further developements will take place and comments from the VT guys will duely follow.

 

Hear hear.

I am quite sure VT did not set out to become millionaires by screwing over their passengers and giving them a diesel trip to Scotland. Nor do they have a reputation for doing so. At the end of the day the tour pays for the loco, the loco provides the fun. These guys do all the grafting. If you pee them off.. Then the ride really does come to an end.

How many people have booked a summer holiday, hoping for the best of British weather, to end in a week full of rain.. Got the Agro from the family, paid over the odds for "rainy day" rip offs to keep everyone quiet... Now who did you sue at the end of it ?, and do you blame the town, the hotel, the highways agency for letting you drive there ?

 

In the days of the old style Butlins Holiday Camps (up to the 60's/70's?), I think the slogan was "It never rains at Butlins".

 

Thought the 37 was coming off at Carnforth? See #181.

 

It would appear that the 47 came off at Carnforth, with the 37 (which went behind 5043 at Carlisle) continuing for the remainder of the journey.

 

Equally if for whatever reason ( and I still think if it had not been for the stupid timings there would be less criticism of the Diesel participation in this tour) you continue to pee off passengers and potential passengers so that they do not travel then the ride really does come to an end.

 

That's correct. Here's my shot at Woodacre north of Garstang.
View attachment 4765

 

Well as someone who was close to what appears to have been the main lineside fire there was no doubt that it was 5043 that caused it, and realisticly I dont see that network rail had much other choice, I think they made the right decision overall they could have course gone more conservative than they did, obviously if i had paid the money for the 5043 trip then I wouldnt be too happy, but at the end of the day the network is there to run a transport system and not really for steam enthusiasts.

 

Gratefully accepted your majesty!!

 

Just got home from this tour, so I'll give my views seeing as very few posts have been from those who have actually travelled.

I boarded at Crewe, and after setting off we were told a 47 was to be attached at Carnforth due to fire risk . A few of us moaned about 46233 as we were aware she was going solo, but we were told 2 stories first of the restriction being on Beattock only and the second of there only being 1 diesel driver available at such short notice, and with 5043 going furthest she drew the short straw. The 47 did help up Shap, but following reports of a fire ScotRail said the 47 must be on the front. The guys from VT/WCRC though fought hard to keep 5043 on the front and well done in doing so. Yes the 47 did the majority of the work North, but she stayed quiet as we approached Haymarket and 5043 was allowed to haul us the short distance in Waverley. Token gesture maybe, but still meant we arrived into Edinburgh behind a Castle!

Sunday was a lot more leisurely, but again we were forced to bring the 47 along for the ride and she did help in parts. However the journey was one of the best train rides I've had, and the mist off the Coast was just stunning. Getting into Stirling the crew were very talkative and thanks for letting us onto the footplate too! As has been pointed out she was stopped in a very good position for numerous photos. The second trip over the Forth was just as good, with 5043 whistling loudly and echoing around the Forth. Who'd have thought in 2012 we'd have heard that! The booked diesel haulage back to Linlithgow was pretty good too, the driver certainly seemed to enjoy himself!

Today we learnt the 47 was on the inside as the same rules as Saturday applied, so diesel assistance necessary otherwise there was to be no steam loco. End of. The 37 was on the back as she was originally sent North to help with Sunday but due to the 47's unexpected trip she wasn't utilised. Set off and yes it was the 47 with a glorified headboard, but again nothing VT could do as it was this or see 5043 stranded at Bo'ness. Got to Carlisle, and the 37/47 were swapped due to unconfirmed reports of low fuel on the 47. We continued though with 5043 as the figurehead and some rateable thrash out of Carlisle... 47 went home at Carnforth, and last I saw 5043/37516 were departing Crewe for home.

Yes it wasn't exactly what I paid for, and Network Rail Signallers were bloody minded at times in making us stick to our booked times even when we were early. There was more than 1 occasion the train was forced to wait for correct time despite no train passing us, especially North of the border.

However, it gets away from the fact that we saw the first ever Castle to Scotland, with 5043 passing through Princess St Gardens and arriving into Waverley, plus we also saw her over the Forth Bridge more than once. So what it wasn't in the style and manner we had all hoped for? Who'd have though in 2012 we would have ever seen such sights?

Somebody above mentioned Glass Half Full/Half Empty. Mines half full, I've had an enjoyable weekend and thanks to Bob/Ben and your team for an enjoyable trip. The stewards provided some good banter with us despite the disappointments, and if you ever chose to try again I will happily put my money where my mouth is. Just maybe do it later/earlier in the year, I can understand wanting to depart/arrive in sunlight but we've done that. Now I/we want to see what 5043 can really do when allowed to

 

Having pottered up to Beattock and Gretna from Yorkshire this morning the 'Earl' was idling up Beattock with what I thought was just the 37 on the back. Having just replayed my filming and seeing the top and tail diesels I conclude that the 'Earl' Was there just for show. It was doing a bit more work away from Gretna which was an improvement.
My wife and I did the 'Coronation' when 'Bittern' set Yorkshire and Scotland alight on the way up, but there was only one diesel on the back on the return journey and only assisted to get 'Bittern' up to speed.
I feel sorry for the punters who stumped up for this trip ( if I hadn't been working on Saturday I would have been on this trip ), vintage trains who've planned what should have been a magnificent trip and network rail who have had to contend with a heat wave!
It was tinder dry around Beattock summit today so I can understand assistance being given but I think top and tail was probably over the top - you have my sympathy Ben as you have and probably will come in for a lot of flack for things that probably became beyond your control

 

quote from Steam gets in your Eyes
"you have my sympathy Ben as you have and probably will come in for a lot of flack for things that probably became beyond your control"

I could not agree more

If I lived in Birmingham I would go on the trip next weekend, Attend open days and take The Shakespeare Express several times during the summer. I may have done so anyway but this is a time when they can use all our support to help them recover from this weekend.

I hope I don't sound to emtional

 

Again Oakfield you seem to imply that VT try to "pee off" their passengers. They have done their best under the difficult circumstances. And I agree with ABD968008 that it is really good of Network Rail to allow us to go out and play trains at the best of the times, let alone during a heatwave and allowing 5043 to continue as part of the consist even when it has almost certainly caused at least one lineside fire on Saturday.

 

What I was trying to explain is that it cuts both ways,if the industry annoys its customers and they stay away it is game over for everyone.

Your second comment is just incredible. NR have a legal obligation to allow open access and seeing that however you try to disguise it , in reality NR is a state owned concern and is ultimately responsible to the British Public, a fact they choose to ignore with the shambolic way they run the network (and I am not just talking about steam or charters here, for example you could graze sheep in the 4 foot at my local stations, and that on one of the most heavily used commuter lines in the country, a situation that has existed for three years now)

 

I cant say i'm really bothered who's view of events you prefer, and i'm sorry to shatter your illusion that the more posts on nat pres you have the more of an expert you become, the fact is that pretty much most of the industry considers this forum to be full of experts just like you and wont give it the time of day!! Does GB ever comment on HERE??
David's opinion is one out of three hundred or more.... A lot of people were still quite happy!
And as for GB at steam dreams putting up with this, you will probably find that if the hot weather continues he wont have any choice or influence in the matter! There have been many steam dreams trains over the last couple of summer's with diesels pushing quite hard on the back and on some occasions the front of the steam engine. Why did he allow this then?
I agree that if this had been known 2 weeks ago the train could have been postponed, but 2 weeks ago it was still raining!!

 

RalphW
Maybe but there was an awful number of obstacles put in the way to ruin ones enjoyment of the day.
The main reason I did not book was that on the two previous trips there had been box assistance and the only reason there was not one on Saturday was the lack of drivers.
Not a good situation as far as I am concerned.

 

46233 did go very slowly up Shap on the northbound, although from what I heard at the lineside, it likely wasn't because of the fire risk. In contrast, it was certainly not hanging about on the southbound climb, full regulator, brought the hairs on the back of my neck to attention as a Shap run should do, that was, until it was eased for the summit loop. 5043 was chucking out a lot of black smoke on Shap, but the diesel was also working hard, so only the crew would be able to say how much effort 5043 was putting in. Make no mistake though, it was 5043 that set off the fires, 46233 passed a full 2 hours before and there was nothing burning in its aftermath.