VT - 5043 to Edinburgh - 26/27/28 May

I think this is an incredibly important point. Ben is very much a minority in that he is willing to come onto this forum and interact with us all. A bit of appreciation for the information, help and advice that he provides would not, i think, go amiss. Many others in his situation would not have even considered coming onto a public forum to give such a detailed account, and the approachability that VT in general promote is second to none. In my opinion, if you were on the tour in question then fine, have your say (whether this is the pace for it, i don't know) but you of all are the ones that are "in the know" enough to make judgements. Perhaps others should consider biting tongues and stepping away from the keyboard for a few moments.

This thread is starting to show why various bodies within the heritage movement have a less than favourable opinion of Nat Pres. Don't let it deteriorate. And don't hound out one of the organisations that still make the effort.

 

If you want to nitpick about words, then traveled / traveling as used here is wrong. It should be travelling and travelled.

 

Maybe it didn't help that there was a major planning operation beforehand? There was a multi-day tour beforehand with numerous different locos involved for each separate day.

VT tour may have been 3 days, but at least it was only 1 loco with ECS moves to stable in the evenings and move to departure points in the morning.

There's only so much one team can do in a shift, surely you can all appreciate that fact?

 

Fair cop guv! My speach in mitigation is that my spell check keeps reverting to English (U S A) and has a habit of changing words back after I have corrected the spell check.

 

Not when they have 12 weeks or more to plan it!

 

Do the planning department get it 12 weeks before run date.?

What about all the other jobs they have to plan.?
(I bet there's more than just charters for them to path).

 

pjhliners noted :

The lunchtime start gave time beforehand to visit the Forth Bridge, whose first crossing by a Castle would be the highlight of the tour. Then to Linlithgow where the train having overnighted at the nearby Bo'ness railway, picked up most of its passengers for the tour.

Sorry to correct your post but this was the first PUBLIC run of a Castle over the Forth Bridge; 5043 hauled the train over the Forth Bridge on Saturday night as part of a positionning move for the Sunday Fife Circle run and a photo of the move should be in Railway Herald this week as confirmation.

As one of the lineside photographers on Sunday I would like to say a massive Thank You to VT and all those involved in the arrangements for running the weekend trip despite the trials and tribulations that accompanied it. Although not a passenger the impression I get from those who travelled was that they made the best of a bad job in which - for once - all the WRONG circumstances came together and forced decisions to be taken that would detract from but not destroy the main purpose of the tour viz. The 1st Castle over the Forth Bridge.

My commisserations to Ben and the teams as they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't.

 

To be fair, we did have the Announcer on the tannoy leaving Edinburgh saying the diesel would be in tickover/notch 1 when it was blatantly obvious that was not the case, wasn't too impressed at being treated like we were blind and deaf there.

ADB - I didn't speak to anyone involved with VT or WCRC on the tour because I don't feel any of the issues can be layed at their door, I'd hate to think how much hassle they had off other passengers on this tour when they were being ordered about from above, I apologuise for being a bit heated towards you on monday, but roasting in the sun in Lockerbie and Carnforth Loops waiting time on a 47 was rather irritating me, Im a bit puzzled by your suggestion of catching a service train home, after spending so much in a weekend I wasn't about to make another outlay.

Another thing that needs to be seriously thought about if your not interested in my posts up to this point is this: I was travelling in a party of 8 on this tour, after the timings debacle at least 5 of whom have probably been lost to mainline steam forever (apart from one tour already booked) how many other "normals" have formed the same opinion ?., it's all very well saying NR had no choice, but a better solution needs to be found, enthusiasts alone who soon forget this sort of farce a fortnight later are too few in number to keep these tours going by themselves.

 

Apologies, that's what I was told earlier in the trip and when they swapped round at Carlisle I assumed the Castle and 37 would come off at Carnforth and only the Castle would reappear at the front with the 47 at the back, after 3 days on the go it woulden't suprise me if low fuel was the reason the 47 came off, it was a minor mercy for me after Carlisle being a class 37 fan as well as steam, though I suspect I was in a minority at having my mood slightly improved at that point.

 

An admission they screwed up badly and an apology would be a start.

 

Hi Ben

Yes I did see you on the tour around that time, it was around that time I went to an availible droplight to cool down as sitting on the "sunny side" was getting unbearable, as mentioned in a previous post, I don't consider VT to blame for the fiasco and thought you were probably getting enough flak throughout the weekend anyway, you have my sympathy if that was indeed the case.

Calm down Ben, none of my frustration has ever been directed towards VT, but the basic fact after that tour is, any future booking by me and friends/family will be in much reduced numbers as some have said "never again", I lost count of how many times my uncle said on Monday he could of flown to Edinburgh and done the Fife Circle and it would of been cheaper & quicker, I'll probably be back in future with two others who are enthusiasts, but the rest are unlikely to touch Mainline steam again with a bargepole.

 

Well, I was aboard for the whole three days. I like Ben's honesty. It was a realistic summation of what actually occurred. Would you prefer Ben's account or some unctuous PR type person? No one should be put off by Ben's account, indeed, they should be encouraging such honesty in this day and age, The tour went well. The weather was totally unpredictable when the the tour was first mooted. NR's lack of experience shows, but, reallistically, what do you expect from today's fragmented railway culture? Gerry Fiennes??!!!! You've a long wait if you do!

My companions and me have an accumulation of about 100 years man-years 'bashing' and touring experience between us, we are well used to; "Events, dear boy, events." For the younger element, google the phrase...

Or, to quote another:

"In the long run, we are all dead". Let's not quibble over trifles, because in the long run....


My compilation of the three days will be on youtube shortly, meantime, bash some keyboards if it makes you feel better, however, nothing will change...bottom-line culture is endemic, it will not go away anytime soon....


Alan.

 

We should all be privivlaged that Ben is apart of this great forum but when people voice thier opinions and start slagging off his company then that's when people start getting upset.

This forum is for fun not for people to fall out.

Vintage trains has my full support for any future tours.

I'm looking forward of the panniers on bank holiday weekend..

People need to think about how much they love steam and remember how lucky we are to be able to have mainline steam.

 

I have many hats at VT - On the tours I am one of the Chefs and can be found in the Pullman Kitchen (Coach B) most of the time wilting in 120+ heat.

During the week I do some CS and PR, along with tour planning and submission to WCR/NetRail. We are quite a small team at Tyseley who work extremely hard to make these tours happen. Most of the time we get it right (we hope) and put on some tours that are memorable and enjoyable for us as well as the passengers.

This time things did not go totally our way; it was due to circumstances totally beyond VT & WCR’s control. The outbound timings, and to a lesser extent the return, were not as desirable as we hoped, but getting us slots in and out of Waverley must have been challenging to say the least. Nothing wrong with Sunday’s times and an enjoyable time was had by all.

The sudden heat-wave was a challenge. I must say thank-you to Network Rail for allowing us to run at all! Remember that the few days prior to our departure, there were both confirmed and unconfirmed reports that Bittern had set some fires in the same areas we were about to traverse! In this litigious society, most companies would have said “no way are you going”.

Which brings me onto the suggestion that we sue NetRail.

Sue them for what? We asked to get from Tyseley to Edinburgh and back……and we did.

Lastly, I will gladly talk face to face on or off the train, via email, telephone or on this forum, with any passenger or potential passenger and listen to / discuss their comments or concerns, good or bad. What I do not have patience for is people who start by saying “I’m never going to travel with you again because 9 years ago someone in the office didn’t know what time a train was leaving, but here is how you should do things” (I’m paraphrasing a bit).

To those of you who might be on the fence about traveling with VT, please keep in mind that most of our trips go off without a (major) hitch with the correct engine to the correct place on the correct day. I could bore you all with the stats, but I will also nod-off myself! We do not overload our trains (10/11 coaches max) so if a diesel is on the back, it is for a reason – we do not take one “just because”.

We put on some (I think)) pretty cracking days out. If you missed the Bristolian a few year back, then you really missed something special. 5043 over the Devon banks earlier this year was something very special. Where else can you run all day behind 2 mainline Panniers? Did you know that the Shakespeare Express is in it’s Fourteenth year of continuous operation and has been steam every time but one occasion?

So to our loyal fans and customers, I say thank-you and keep the weekends in October free. We are going to do something rather special – it won’t be cheep by you will soon find out why.

Lastly, I want everyone to get a jam-jar, bean-tin or similar vessel and write Saturday May 10[SUP]th[/SUP], 2014 on the side. You will need to put a few (more than 2) pounds per week into this tin. It’s a long way off and a lot can happen between now and then, but God willing, we are going to put on quite a show. Something to make Sir Isambard Kingdom Brunel sit up and say “I did that”.

I will let Mr Streeter take it from here……

 

Re: "Panniers on bank holiday weekend"

What panniers are these??? Unless my advancing senility is at long last getting the best of me, I can't see anything about them on uksteam.info OR on the VT website!
Please elaborate. :confused1:..

 

Re: "Panniers on bank holiday weekend"

It's one we snuck in. August 27th - Panniers over Harringworth Viaduct....Bank Holiday Panniers - featuring Panniers featuring 7752 & 9600 - Mon 27 Aug 2012

Cheers!

 

Re: "Panniers on bank holiday weekend"

Try http://railways.national-preservati...s-over-harringworth-viaduct-27th-august.html; just below this thread on NatPres !

 

Ben - a brilliant response.
Whilst I am seen as an RTC insider I travelled more by VT in the last 2 yrs! Why? For "hardcore reasons"
The Bristolian was amazing (with HUGE NR assistance) travel. 5043 into Euston with steam out of New St--WOWEE/ Liverpool/pannier tanks+rare track/the fantastic joint FGW(+NR)Cotwolds celebration..........I would have booked for this epic (still need steam at Alloa) but was torn by RTC to the Peak W24 at Swanage + the remarkable opening of the Epping+Ongar!

Sue a supplier? As a businessman this would mean one certainty--never using that supplier again.........
In 25 yrs running a largish company we have NEVER sued a supplier.......we "sort it"

Mr Fiennes-yes- Instit of Transport types were always inspired by him + I was. Reading his columns that got him sacked were part of my life! BUT I actually feel Gerry would probably not have agreed to mainline steam on the WCML or the ECML unless robust provision were made for a plan B or timings that caused no threat to key services. Who knows?I have talked to a few senior staff who feel steam(without a diesel on the back) is too great a risk at a time when performance targets are proving very difficult. I had to pinch myself at arriving in Edinbugh/Glasgow+Euston on various tours and feel very lucky.
In Germany 2 weeks ago there was a diesel helping on the excellent Train of Events from Berlin(on both sat+sun)despite a promise of steam only on sun.....On a steam tour from Dortmunt to Hamburg an electric loco assisted for nearly 50% of the time. Great tour tho' This is becoming common in Austria,Germany+increasingly in Slovakia/Czech+Switz
My point in this ramble...... Bad luck VT. It could have been RTC or SD. Carry on planning amazing tours+have noted May 2014 as you suggest.I only wish my energy levels+IT skills meant I engaged as fully as Ben does......!!!!