Pathing and Timings for Steam Charters

I know very little about how the planning side works in NR but I am often on the end of schedules that are put in. Most of what goes into the Working TimeTable (WTT) does work because faults get ironed out over time. The problem often comes with STP (Short Term Planning) or VSTP (Very Short Term Planning) for one-off trains. Often these are poorly pathed - I'm not exactly sure why but it's a consistent problem within the company and often results in quite a lot of delay minutes being accrued.

What I would say is that I don't think anyone in NR is trying to deliberately push steam of the network by giving them poor paths despite the hysteria that occurs on here. It's certainly not a job I would fancy doing.

 

VSTP's are usually paths planned days or even hours in advance so timings rather c**p for them are an occuptional hazard, however I was led to believe Charters had to be submitted to the Charter Dept at least 12 week in advance and the two tours mentioned in the original post were planned close to, if not in excess of a year ago, why on were earth timings for these (and unacceptable ones at that) were only issued a couple of days in advance or even on the day in the CE's case, is beggars belief.

This p*ss poor performance by the charter dept has already put 5 of my friends/family off mainline steam for good.

 

Look - this is a business - and not a small scale one either. At the retail end the take is well into eight figures, and even at the track access end Network Rail are probably getting over a million so we aren't talking small money - so all this how lucky we are etc baloney needs exposing for what it is.

Network Rail is a statutory undertaker responsible to the public and to parliament for how it operates - but you wouldn't think so - especially with the obscene bonuses flying around.

Accordingly there is no reason why the paying public should simply sit on their hands and accept what is being cascaded onto them if it is unacceptable. I have and will continue to agitate for a cross industry forum as the only way that everyone involved will ever understand the whole picture is by meeting and seeing how the other side operates - in detail. The problem is the industry is run by egos who see themselves as above such niceties as this. Silly and immature behaviour - but their choice.

Timings is but one part of the composition of a tour - but if the tourism industry is to have an interface with all the players communication and understanding, and then provision of sensible working indices might follow

 

Frank, you are so right about everything in this post. Let us not forget also, that a a government minister pointed out yesterday, not only are NR accountable to the public they are heavily subsidized by them too!

 

In the context of Network Rail a million pounds is small money, especially compared to the bills they can be faced with from major delays like the ECML fiasco last year - with NR apparently only aiming to break-even from charter operations i cant see much of a case for investing any more on handling them.

I suspect the only realistic way to give certain people the guaranteed decent timings and advance notice of diesel assistance they want is for NR to become a lot more risk adverse - as is apparently the case in many countries abroad. If the charter industry was in crisis, or operators were cutting down on one-off trips i might be persuaded of the need but it seems there are more steam charters than ever with increasing costs and the economic downturn a far greater factor than NR cock-ups, however annoying they may be.

Chris

 

Is it possible NR are preoccupied with Olympic train planning, and havent got sufficient resources to allocate to charters ?

 

NR are certainly preoccupied - with setting up their new national HQ at Milton Keynes, resulting in yet more staff refusing to uproot their lives for an employer of this calibre, and more experience leaving the industry, and being replaced by newcomers who "know everything" except how to run a railway.

I get the Network Rail vacancy list every day and its full of vacancies there

 

Would it not be a good idea for some of the "newbies" in the Charter Dept to have to go on and work with charter companies for a few weeks initially to get an idea of the issues they face and what it's like to be on the other side of the fence ?, see what the problems are and where they possibly cane be overcome with some minor tweaks and common sense.

It's a common problem with all newcomers straight out of Uni and the like into the workplace as I have found in my retail job, they have all the qualifications in the world on a piece of paper, but sod all experience of working in the real world, and it soon shows, true we all have to learn, but showing them what they will be dealing with before throwing them in the deep end would help no end.

 

Great idea! Chance of it happening? I suspect zero.

 

Next weekend we are running a 4 day land cruise to Scotland from London plus, 3 Northern Belles and a London-Inverness charter. Drivers rosters get posted on a Thursday for the following week. As yet no timings back for next week apart from 2 Northern Belles. Rostering, watering and planning all up in the air as you might expect. At present if any charters, steam inlcuded, are running at all then its through luck and not good judgement.

The charter planning chaps that I have been involved with are some of the best and most experienced railwaymen I know. I don't thinks its them, but their wayward employer.

 

Many months ago I booked to go on the Yorkshireman on Tuesday 5th June which was shown in the Railway Touring Company brochure as departing Victoria at 0800 and running to York hauled by 70013 Oliver Cromwell with a return working hauled aby a diesel loco. To reach Victoria by 0800 meant catching the first train in the morning from my local station into London and then a short tube journey across London.
Imagine my surprise this morning when I received a letter to say that Network Rail have retimed the train ONE AND HALF HOURS EARLIER to depart 0635.
I have contacted RTC to cancel my seat because I cannot get there in time...!

 

Network Rail staff going to work would be a major culture shock to anyone from NR, the problem word being 'Work'!

Agree totally about your view of University Graduates, my experience with them is they are next to useless. These days academic qualifications seem to work in inverse proportion to common sense and work ethic. That is speaking from years of experience of recruiting. Give me an over 40, especially if ex services, and they turn up on time,smartly turned out speak politely to both colleagues and clients and happily work until the job is done.

Another example is my Daughters masters degree was less challenging to obtain and marked to a much lower standard then 'O' levels (yet alone 'A' levels ) when I was at school.

 

Hmm, where's Mr Romsey when you need him......

 

Before I get accosted for taking sides I personnally do not have any commitment to either TOC's or NR.

I think people need to grasp the concept of the good-will and relationships that have to be built and maintained to continue our beloved steam runnings on what is already an over-crowded network. Are we also fogetting it is their railway not ours to dictate how and when we wish to use it. Yes planning of enormous fine detail in good time has to be done and suggested timings are requested but things change and we have to accept this when I/you place a booking and yes even at the last minute things can and do change.

So what is the answer, what works? Regular pathing over regular routes. Shakespear Express, and the Torbay you would say seem to run like clockwork, one offs such as the much discussed Castle to Scotland are open to adversity yet I know the best out of bad situations are aspired too and generally achieved. (Hats off to certain TOC’s for pushing these boundries and may it continue). Who wold have guessed we would have a heatwave in Scotland in May. Slim to non in my book.

This is not a new or uncommon issue, I had the pleasure of numerous dissapointing tours with a GWR monarch who had an annoying habbit of getting hot-boxes at just the wrong moment and back in that day I never heard the rumbling of an American style law suite against the TOC or BR. Pathetic!

From the punters side I understand money is tight for a lot of folks at the mo and we all expect value for money and near perfect adherence to the itinaries for a tour, but with so many variables especially when steam locomotives are involved, I quite look forward to the unexpected. If all goes well, great, if not, there is always another excuse to go again.

We must not also forget the dissapointment when things go wrong for the behind the scenes folks who were busy days before and up in the wee hours prepping, cleaning, fine tuning every aspect of the day ahead. I'm sure pathing and timings are the least of their worries when looking after an 80-100 year old kettle on wheels just about to do X amount of miles hauling X at X mph.

If we want different or unusual you pay your money and take a chance. A positive not negative outlook should be applied, you never know a NR rep may read this and take the proactive comments forward.

 

I'd just like to clear something up that appears to have been lost in the mire in the Edinburgh thread - whoever mentioned suing Network Rail, it was definatly not me...

Can understand totally where your coming from Andy, but currently it's the woefully late issue of timings that's causing a load of grief for a few tours of late and really it's a situation NR should be avoiding with ease.

 

Couldn't agree more - read a few boffin job applications, and the separation between intellect and common sense could not be revealed more starkly!

Until they have a few years real life experience under their belt they are more trouble than they are worth!