the surviving L&B carriages should be returned or not?

Dear all
I am asking this question to you as you may know the L&B trust are rebuilding the L&B fro Woody Bay station i Devon. My question is do you think coach number 2 owned by the national collection and coach 14 owned by the Ffestiniog railway should be given to the L&B Trust, restored and returned to there rightful place on the restored L&BR?
my view is that they should as they have more of a historic significance to the L&B than either the NRM or the FR.
thanks
Patrick

 

Why would the FR want to give one of its carrages away? it would make no sense to the FR to give away its rolling stock when they already have less than they need

 

No on both accounts. Without the efforts of the NRM and FR what would be left of the L&B coaches? Granted the FR one must have had several overhauls by now but it is still considered to be a L&B coach.

 

certainly not. The NRM one should stay where it is and be preserved as is. The Festiniog one is probably a Triggers Broom at this stage anyway, but maybe if the L&B asked nicely they may get lent it one day.

If you dont mind me saying so its very arogant to more or less demand that these coaches should be returned whwen they only exist due to the efforts of others before the L&B trust ever was founded.

I assume the OP does speak for the Trust?

 

No and No.

The only appropriate way in which FR No.14 may be sent to Woody Bay would be as a loan (as has happened before) or as a purchase/replacement like for like, and even then I don't think that ought be done, as a great deal of its history is on the Ffestiniog now, and it has been so altered to suit FR purposes that a copy, to original L&B spec. would be more appropriate for the L&B. On the FR, 14 has more of a story to tell than it would on the L&B.

No.2? Most definitely not, it is a very rare example of a carriage in an advanced state of conservation, that is to say, left as is from the moment it came into 'preservation'. Whilst it could be better interpreted at the NRM - something they accept - it has a tremendous story to tell and is in a remarkable state of completeness, retaining a majority of its interior, exterior and frame fittings. A restoration would destroy all of that. A replica would in this case be a far better means of redressing any imbalance, if there is one (I don't think there is), and indeed as an interpretative device - before and after, the replica and the original, etc. etc. The only way No.2 could ever go to Woody Bay in my opinion should be 'as is' to go into a museum there where it can be effectively conserved, on loan from the NRM. But that would be a sore loss to the NRM's Narrow Gauge displays, which could do with a touch more on the Common Carrier NG Railways.

For far more of my whiffling on this subject, please visit http://railways.national-preservation.com/narrow-gauge-railways/34847-l-b-coach-nrm.html

 

Firstly to GeoffH: I know that the FR has a coach shortage but would you view change when all the new super barns are built?
Secondly to Reading General: Im not part of the trust due to where i live and other reasons and i fail to see how i am arrogant in my post on the forum as firstly i only asked other members opinions on the matter and i gave my own personal view on that they should be returned for the historic value to the railway as for the NRM it isn't the first or last narrow gauge bogey coach and im thankful for them for saving it and conserving it but if the railway it once ran on was revived and required rolling stock what could be better than having one of the few remaining carriages than an replica ad the same for 14 on the FR im grateful that they saved it and it was there original barn carriage but it has since been rebuilt and one the super barns are rebuilt could she be released?
thanks
Patrick

 

14 is a popular vehicle on the FR and now as much a part of that railways history as any other. I think you would have a hard job persuading them to sell it. 14 is also a buffet car so building more super barns won't make it redundant.

 

Completely agree. Well put

 

Would the L&B Trust really want them? They might prefer to build their own, better suited to todays and future traffic. And at the moment they don't have a suitable museum to conserve these items as historical relics.

 

Many of the people reading this thread will already be familiar with the topic. For those who are not, then you might like to have a look at the information provided by these two links:

Ex L&B Coach 15 & Operation Snapper | Lynton_&_ Barnstaple_Railway

and

Heritage Coaches | Lynton_&_ Barnstaple_Railway


While you are there have a wander through the other pages of the L & B website - it makes for good reading!

Mike

 

While this is not official Trust policy, I can say that the belief in the Trust is that the FR coach is better off staying where it is, it has run on the FR far longer that it did while on the L&BR. It has already been back to Woody Bay with LYD, so there is no problem there, as for the NRM coach 2 the condition in which it is in, it is far to fragile for it to ever run again, as Miff said we don't have anywhere for it to go on display so what is the point of having at Woody Bay?

Patrick does have a point of course, it would be good to have every thing back as it was, but that is not going to happen in our life time, even the two carriages being rebuilt in Essex are not 100% original but they do have a certain percentage of genuine material in them, I am told we have enough material to rebuild up to six coaches in total, the rest will have to be new builds. But by the time that happens none of us will know the difference as the quality of the workmanship on coaches 7 and 17 is just outstanding, the next coach is coach 10 also a center open coach. Go to the L&BRT website to keep up to date with progress.

While on the subject we also have enough original material to help partly rebuild two of the Howard Vans.

One problem we do have and that what type of braking system to have, up until now, we have had air braking. But if Lyd was to visit, we also need to install vacuum braking as well. This is not a big problem, but as you can see, you solve one problem only to find you have another half a dozen to find an answer to.

Regards

Colin Rainsbury

 

"should be given to the L&B Trust,!"

Thats the bit...no "Sold to" or "loaned to" but given, coaches that others have cared for and put a lot of resources into....

 

to reading general: I do not wish to make enemy's on this forum and i don't want to go off topic on this tread i was just asking whether my view was shared that the two coaches could be returned to the L&B one day and people like yourself have give your views but please don't pick through my post and don't get personnel just at one word i was just using it not saying it was what should happen just as a word as to show it goes from the FR or NRM to the L&B moneys could be exchanged coaches could be swapped i don't know, no one else has picked it out or said anything apart fro there own view.
Please only post on this thread about the L&B please as thats what it is about not arguments over posts
thanks
Patrick

 

You do know that a new carriage costs £100,000 don't you?

 

I believe that the L&B trust have got theirs down to about £60k.

 

Why is that their rightfull place? It may be where they were built for but they have been legitamtly sold since then, well I assume they have. If the current owners were to sell them I would hope that the L&B would be one of the first places that would be considered, but given the historical significance in its condition of the NRM one I doubt that will be the case.

 

I am sure I read somewhere that after re-building No.14 became something of a prototype for all future new FR coaches (bogie design/loading gauge profile), I guess that makes it a historic part of the FR carriage fleet in its own right.